Construct 3 - many questions (native exporterts)

  • The only remotely practical way to write a set of cross-platform native exporters would be to rely on some kind of existing framework or library, which... relies on third parties. I struggle to see why this is an argument for native exporters.

    We understand it, but it is not the same. Now we depend on libraries, depend on Crosswalk, depend on Intel XDK, depend on relationships between Intel XDK and Crosswalk and so on.

    With native exporters we will depend on libraries and Scirra only. And it's normal to depend on Scirra, because we pay money to Scirra, that is why Scirra is much more interested to make the exporters work well than Intel XDK and Crosswalk.

    Also if Scirra's native exporter will show us bad result, Scirra should try to solve the problem.

    And now, if I have problems with the export, the anwser is "exporters is not our problem, wait a few years and may be Intel XDK will try to make it better".

    This contradicts what I've seen, and I've done profiling for some of the largest C2 games like Airscape. As ever, I am absolutely keen for anyone with poorly performing .capx files to send them to me (preferably in minimal form like a bug report) so I can optimise anything that needs to be. I repeat this with every thread that ever crops up like this, so I've said it a lot, and I am either sent nothing, sent games which are incredibly inefficiently designed, or games which are GPU-bottlenecked. So even if what you say is true, I'd be very interested to see any examples of that, because I almost never see them myself.

    I have ALREADY posted such examples and you just ignored my posts.

  • >

    > > I thought the issue was 3rd party reliance

    > >

    > The only remotely practical way to write a set of cross-platform native exporters would be to rely on some kind of existing framework or library, which... relies on third parties. I struggle to see why this is an argument for native exporters.

    >

    >

    > > 80% games are CPU bottlenecked and only 20% are GPU bottlenecked.

    > >

    > This contradicts what I've seen, and I've done profiling for some of the largest C2 games like Airscape. As ever, I am absolutely keen for anyone with poorly performing .capx files to send them to me (preferably in minimal form like a bug report) so I can optimise anything that needs to be. I repeat this with every thread that ever crops up like this, so I've said it a lot, and I am either sent nothing, sent games which are incredibly inefficiently designed, or games which are GPU-bottlenecked. So even if what you say is true, I'd be very interested to see any examples of that, because I almost never see them myself.

    >

    Would you be able to write a tutorial, or instructions on how to handle big projects events? That would save you time in the long run, and help others not to make bad events and then complain things are not working well.

    That's a fair request. I'm working on a pretty big project and I have my own way of optimizing it but it would be nice to have other practical examples and optimization tricks besides the very broadly applicable guidelines on some of the blog posts.

  • lennaert: Thank your for your words. I'm currently working on the Android build. It features setting up the config file, installing dependencies, signing the APK and a little more stuff. All the steps may seem overwhelming at first but I'll try to make things easy to understand.

  • byondisoft, as far as I can tell you just agreed with me. Complaining is quite different than suggestions and requests. A majority of these people are complaining, presumably because they don't know how to use the tools they're asking for exporters for. It takes much more time to do nothing other than complaining than it does to do the work to learn to use the other tools.

    Maybe they're not in the wrong line of business, but that kind of behavior still doesn't do much for productivity.

  • We need native export!

  • no we don't.

  • I have created thread about native exporters on c2community.com

    The results of voting:

    "Do you want native exporters?

    1. Yes - 85%

    2. No - 0%

    3. I don't care - 15%"

    My translation of russian developer's posts:

    Construct 2 must have native exporters to make export more simple and independent from third party companies. Also it should greatly encrease the performance and compatibility with the platforms.

    Native export is very important for me - independence and fast export.

    Native export - and we caught Unity. And Ashley do not want to make native export because of laziness.

    It is more easy just to change the interface of C3 than to write the complicated code of native exporters.

    I think the problem is technical. All conditions and actions are translated into HTML5. Creation of native export means translation into many other languages, tests of it, many changes.

    I can understand him, it's a plenty of work

    nighttrolley, there was a very cool suggestion to cooperate with gameclosure, add export. Besides gameclosure switched the Space Blaster to their engine and described all the steps in their blog.

    I think they are greedy. I don't understand their actions. I want to just forget)

    As a developer, I think, I have to be friendly to users and to do what they want

    paradine really speaks from all our community, because not all of us can express our opinion in English.

    A agree that sometimes problems with export and performance are developer's mistakes.

    It's another question. But it alsways takes many extra actions to export when we test our games.

    It's not hard, but it takes much time and it's boring.

    Also there is a dependence from third-party developers and restrictions of such exporters.

    There is not enough performance sometimes.

    Native export will make developer's lifes more comfortable. Construct was created for people who want to think only about gameplay. And, people who like extra problems, use accembler for your games - it will make you a true developer.

    P - performance

    I think, that non-native export is the first and the main problem of C2

    There is a strange situation. You have a very nice editor and you can create games, but there is no opportunity to create the end-product. The only opportunity is to use third party products.

    It's bad to depend from third party developers who don't care that you use C2

    The third party developer can change his platform every moment and C2 games will loose the opportunity to be compiled.

    Also there is a variety of problems with optimisations - also exporters work bad with physics.

  • So it's like ~20 people from 177,817 registered users asks for native exporter?

  • Ignoring all reasons to ask for native exporters, both good and bad ones, asking for something doesn't affect its feasibility. Considering the teams behind the 3rd party exporters and wrappers, it's still not realistic to achieve better results with less people, with less resources, in less time, for less money, while maintaining sensible timescales and attractive pricetag.

  • So it's like ~20 people from 177,817 registered users asks for native exporter?

    85% of all developers need native exporters - I have proved it by creating voting on c2community.ru

    If you want to prove, that on scirra.com the results will be different you have to create the voting on scirra.com.

    If you will not do it - your words does not mean anything.

  • 85% of 14 people that VOTED.

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  • 85% of 14 people that VOTED.

    They are in cahoots with one another !

    And Ashley do not want to make native export because of laziness.

    I found myself looking up an article about chemical nudering.

  • > So it's like ~20 people from 177,817 registered users asks for native exporter?

    >

    85% of all developers need native exporters - I have proved it by creating voting on c2community.ru

    If you want to prove, that on scirra.com the results will be different you have to create the voting on scirra.com.

    If you will not do it - your words does not mean anything.

    I don't need to create any pools nor I care about that.

    So far this post was seen by 13,874 "Second Constructors" but only a small few said they want native...

  • 85% of 14 people that VOTED.

    And how many people voted for wrapper? Zero.

    How many people voted for any other improvement? Zero.

    Show me any other voting about C3 that has more than 14 people that voted.

  • I don't need to create any pools nor I care about that.

    So far this post was seen by 13,874 "Second Constructors" but only a small few said they want native...

    About 100 users said that they want native exporters.

    Show me any topic where the number of vistors and the number of posts is the same.

    And if you really don't care why are you still in this thread?

    I have already proved that native exporters give much better performance than wrappers.

    I have already proved that 80% games are CPU bottlenecked.

    I have already proved taht 85% users need native exporters.

    And there are no proves from people, who don't want native exporters.

    I am really sorry, that I need to say that, but some of us begin to think, that people, who like wrappers, are just another account of Scirra's developers.

    Show me any reason not to create voting about C3 features on scirra.com?

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