Construct 3 - many questions (native exporterts)

By the way, i`m diving now into android dev and i want to say - this is not simple, even for me. For example, look at this fresh tut: building-with-cordova-part-01-setting-up. How many actions this tut have and this is only first part! My opinion: we need simple native export, without reading many tutorials and using any services. That have to be fast and simple action.

—: Hello. Thank you for the words about the tutorial.

But actually I may have a divergent opinion.

Most of the setup stuff you need to do with Cordova is a one time action.

And people can always create a batch file.

Intel XDK works great as well.

I see no issues in users learning more advanced topics, making a little extra effort.

Some people just want to become game developers overnight without

taking their time to learn some intermediary stuff. They expect the tools

they use to do everything for them.

P.S. 80% games are CPU bottlenecked and only 20% are GPU bottlenecked.

P.S.S. I have already showed you many cases of such games and proved my opinion.

3. Export will be one-click.

P.S. It is not the main reason, but it will be cool to spend less time for boring things.

—

May I ask how you came to those figures regarding the 20% being GPU bottlenecked ?

Also, paradine,

I just noticed the one click option .... that would be awesome ... But I can definitely telly you there it will not happen anytime soon.

The amount of options needed to set and extra information required for the wide variations in exports ... keeping these working every update will require loads amount of development time on scirra's behalf. Which would get reflected in the price for construct 3.

The Tutorial Byondisoft posted, that is actually a relative simple tutorial for those comfortable with a command line interface. (which is actually a pretty generic thing for most decent programmers)

If the Russian developers consider this hard, I can definitely say that the Russian developers are far from any professional level of programming and are unaware of the workloads involved with the finer aspects of their request.

did any of you ever zip align a package ? or made store keys ? or bzipped ? Seriously lots of these packages are also from third parties and required in most scenarios to produce a working APK package. These are required on the end users their system, requiring them to download and install ...... Its not like they are embedded in Construct 2. Hell, I doubt some of these packages even allow another party to integrate their material in to another product.

byondisoft, great stuff btw, neat and organised tut, I'll use it a couple times when you finish it up.

norab: You can use Cordova directly through command-line.

http://cordova.apache.org/docs/en/5.0.0 ... 0Interface

Of course, at first, it's a little overwhelming because you need to install every dependencies like

Android SDK to compile for Android, .NET Framework to compile for Windows, etc.

But I found that once that's done, it's easy to create a batch file that will compile the project easily.

The cordova command-line interface is very easy to understand (check the link above).

I never had to use Intel XDK again. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink">

+1

May I ask how you came to those figures regarding the 20% being GPU bottlenecked ?

I have solved more than 200 problems of other developers. Many of them were about the performance.

Also I have created 4 my own games and 3 games are in development.

When I tried to make my games run 60 dps on PC and Android I had to reduce the number of particles, reduce some physics options, reduce some pathfinding options.

But I had no problems with GPU.

Also 80% of people who asked me to help them with the performance had CPU bottlenecked games.

If the Russian developers consider this hard, I can definitely say that the Russian developers are far from any professional level of programming and are unaware of the workloads involved with the finer aspects of their request.

In Russia we like comfort. It's not hard to spend time reading manuals and making hundreds of extra clicks, it's just boring.

I fill I understand why Steve Jobs sometimes became angry talking to his employees - do you really hate comfort?

You solved over 200 developer problems, for construct ? where ? With just 55 posts on this here forum with half of them being about extra features to make it more 'comfortable' for you .... I find this hard to believe.

Look at my post count ... the vast majority is from the How do I section .. where I helped others solve their issues.

I have seen so many issues .... Almost ALL of them were user related implementation issues. Just a handful of them were directly related to bugs.

Steve Jobs had 1000's of Asians doing his work for him cheaply to make his product 'comfortable'.

I'm just being realistic about what's possible.

Also .... do you know Xcode ? apple's propriety code for their applications ?

You solved over 200 developer problems, for construct ? where ? With just 55 posts on this here forum with half of them being about extra features to make it more 'comfortable' for you .... I find this hard to believe.

For construct on

I have 1270 posts and 235 reputation points there.

When I help somebody, he can click plus-button and give me +1 to reputation.

Ashley, Kyatric please!!!!!!!!!

This thread is well past it's 'sell by' date.

> You solved over 200 developer problems, for construct ? where ? With just 55 posts on this here forum with half of them being about extra features to make it more 'comfortable' for you .... I find this hard to believe.

>

For construct on http://www.c2community.ru

I have 1270 posts and 235 reputation points there.

When I help somebody, he can click plus-button and give me +1 to reputation.

Nice, that's actually pretty cool.

Anyway, I think Zenox98 is right, this discussion has indeed long past it's usefulness.

I'm out too.

I thought the issue was 3rd party reliance

The only remotely practical way to write a set of cross-platform native exporters would be to rely on some kind of existing framework or library, which... relies on third parties. I struggle to see why this is an argument for native exporters.

80% games are CPU bottlenecked and only 20% are GPU bottlenecked.

This contradicts what I've seen, and I've done profiling for some of the largest C2 games like Airscape. As ever, I am absolutely keen for anyone with poorly performing .capx files to send them to me (preferably in minimal form like a bug report) so I can optimise anything that needs to be. I repeat this with every thread that ever crops up like this, so I've said it a lot, and I am either sent nothing, sent games which are incredibly inefficiently designed, or games which are GPU-bottlenecked. So even if what you say is true, I'd be very interested to see any examples of that, because I almost never see them myself.

> I thought the issue was 3rd party reliance

>

The only remotely practical way to write a set of cross-platform native exporters would be to rely on some kind of existing framework or library, which... relies on third parties. I struggle to see why this is an argument for native exporters.

> 80% games are CPU bottlenecked and only 20% are GPU bottlenecked.

>

This contradicts what I've seen, and I've done profiling for some of the largest C2 games like Airscape. As ever, I am absolutely keen for anyone with poorly performing .capx files to send them to me (preferably in minimal form like a bug report) so I can optimise anything that needs to be. I repeat this with every thread that ever crops up like this, so I've said it a lot, and I am either sent nothing, sent games which are incredibly inefficiently designed, or games which are GPU-bottlenecked. So even if what you say is true, I'd be very interested to see any examples of that, because I almost never see them myself.

Would you be able to write a tutorial, or instructions on how to handle big projects events? That would save you time in the long run, and help others not to make bad events and then complain things are not working well.

The only remotely practical way to write a set of cross-platform native exporters would be to rely on some kind of existing framework or library, which... relies on third parties. I struggle to see why this is an argument for native exporters.

We understand it, but it is not the same. Now we depend on libraries, depend on Crosswalk, depend on Intel XDK, depend on relationships between Intel XDK and Crosswalk and so on.

With native exporters we will depend on libraries and Scirra only. And it's normal to depend on Scirra, because we pay money to Scirra, that is why Scirra is much more interested to make the exporters work well than Intel XDK and Crosswalk.

Also if Scirra's native exporter will show us bad result, Scirra should try to solve the problem.

And now, if I have problems with the export, the anwser is "exporters is not our problem, wait a few years and may be Intel XDK will try to make it better".

This contradicts what I've seen, and I've done profiling for some of the largest C2 games like Airscape. As ever, I am absolutely keen for anyone with poorly performing .capx files to send them to me (preferably in minimal form like a bug report) so I can optimise anything that needs to be. I repeat this with every thread that ever crops up like this, so I've said it a lot, and I am either sent nothing, sent games which are incredibly inefficiently designed, or games which are GPU-bottlenecked. So even if what you say is true, I'd be very interested to see any examples of that, because I almost never see them myself.

I have ALREADY posted such examples and you just ignored my posts.

>

> > I thought the issue was 3rd party reliance

> >

> The only remotely practical way to write a set of cross-platform native exporters would be to rely on some kind of existing framework or library, which... relies on third parties. I struggle to see why this is an argument for native exporters.

>

>

> > 80% games are CPU bottlenecked and only 20% are GPU bottlenecked.

> >

> This contradicts what I've seen, and I've done profiling for some of the largest C2 games like Airscape. As ever, I am absolutely keen for anyone with poorly performing .capx files to send them to me (preferably in minimal form like a bug report) so I can optimise anything that needs to be. I repeat this with every thread that ever crops up like this, so I've said it a lot, and I am either sent nothing, sent games which are incredibly inefficiently designed, or games which are GPU-bottlenecked. So even if what you say is true, I'd be very interested to see any examples of that, because I almost never see them myself.

>

Would you be able to write a tutorial, or instructions on how to handle big projects events? That would save you time in the long run, and help others not to make bad events and then complain things are not working well.

That's a fair request. I'm working on a pretty big project and I have my own way of optimizing it but it would be nice to have other practical examples and optimization tricks besides the very broadly applicable guidelines on some of the blog posts.

lennaert: Thank your for your words. I'm currently working on the Android build. It features setting up the config file, installing dependencies, signing the APK and a little more stuff. All the steps may seem overwhelming at first but I'll try to make things easy to understand.

byondisoft, as far as I can tell you just agreed with me. Complaining is quite different than suggestions and requests. A majority of these people are complaining, presumably because they don't know how to use the tools they're asking for exporters for. It takes much more time to do nothing other than complaining than it does to do the work to learn to use the other tools.

Maybe they're not in the wrong line of business, but that kind of behavior still doesn't do much for productivity.