Announcement PR wreck so far...

    Not at all what I meant, just a misunderstanding then!

    Just a misunderstanding, indeed.

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    I honestly think if we did what many are suggesting - and post all the features first and hype it up even more, then make the same announcement - it would have gone down worse. Everyone would have accused us of being deceptive, pulling some kind of bait-and-switch scam. We knew this would be a shock to many people, the only question was when to say it. So we chose to say it first, so you know from the start. I'm not surprised, I get the frustration, but I think this is the most transparent and up-front way of doing it.

    I'm not sure how to even reply to everyone - for example some people are saying we should have been upfront, and I genuinely think we were, in a way many other companies wouldn't have been. Lots of people are saying we should have announced features - and we did, but they were largely ignored (which we kind of expected). Multiplatform is huge. Chrome OS is huge. I get it, not a big deal if you're already happy with Windows, but that is still aimed squarely at the persistently top feature requests for years - Mac and Linux support. And there's a ton more. We have weeks and weeks of announcements lined up still.

    It's strange to me that this is so confusing for you. First off, you should have done market research to find out if your user base wanted a subscription model/browser based IDE. That would have solved all of this before it even started. Second, if you didn't care that it wasn't what most of us wanted, you should have given us the bad news up front like you did, AND give some features that people can get excited about. Even one major feature. But now, on day two, you still haven't released a single feature that is even remotely compelling. I wouldn't even take notice about these things if they were included in an update to C2, let alone as hype for a completely new product. Massive fail so far, in my opinion.

    I honestly think if we did what many are suggesting - and post all the features first and hype it up even more, then make the same announcement - it would have gone down worse. Everyone would have accused us of being deceptive, pulling some kind of bait-and-switch scam. We knew this would be a shock to many people, the only question was when to say it. So we chose to say it first, so you know from the start. I'm not surprised, I get the frustration, but I think this is the most transparent and up-front way of doing it.

    I don't mind that you disclosed the pricing model and the fact that it's a browser based IDE. I think the problem is that that is ALL you told us on the first day. It's not really exciting. Then today you show us screenshots which basically look exactly like C2. If you had shown us something new, like an improved sprite editor, I would feel differently.

    I hope there's something good tomorrow.

    You guys are not completely right about the features announced so far. The only feature that I personally have use of is multiplatform - being able to use it on linux.

    Potentially huge would be the built in ability to backup game projects on the cloud and ability to access them via a web browser.

    apart of that -can Ashley and Tom please clarify on the subscription point?

    • when your sub period ends , what happens? Does the user stop having access to their projects and the editor - even when the editor is running offline? Or does subscription only affect game engine updates?
    • What sort of DRM is in there to check if the user is in their sub (trial) period? Does the editor require to check with a server prior to even opening?
    • Running offline - if that copies the entire editor to hard drive - is that copied to an obscure temp folder that chrome has - just for the current user? Or does that get copied to a user specified dir? Is it installed on chrome web browser as an extension?

    Where do you store the editor settings?

    • When your subscription ends, you have full access until the date your next billing was meant to be taken
    • Free edition will be able to open any project in read-only mode.
    • Exported games will not be affected in any way at all
    • Your assets are yours, you can save them locally or in the cloud - up to you. We would never hold your exported game or game assets hostage.
    • Details about checks are not something we talk about too openly for obvious reasons, but we've always focused on making it invisible and painless for legitimate customers. We're confident there's not going to be any issues for anyone.

    - Free edition will be able to open any project in read-only mode.

    This seems like a dealbreaker for me.

    Come on, guys.

    Not even something limited but still able to create games just like the C2 free edition?

    You mean to tell me people who are interested in TRYING out C3 HAS to pay at least for the personal edition?

    • A free edition will exist that lets you make and edit games
    • However, as an added benefit free edition will allow you to open games that exceed the free edition limit in read-only mode to take a look at.

    * Edited for clarity.

    >

    > > Nah, the fallout would have been far worse if they had waited to announce these exact features.

    > > This way they don't have to worry about the users who wouldn't have paid for the new scheme anyways.

    > > Now all they have to do is build up the value of C3, hence the trickle of information.

    > >

    >

    > That was our thinking!

    >

    Really Tom???????????????????????????????????????????????

    Wow...rude...so your thinking is to ditch 80-90% of your former audience and build up on the rest? That's not just bad marketing...it's clearly lack of respect for your customers...

    There's a reason I said users rather than customers.

    - A free edition will exist that lets you make and edit games

    - However, as an added benefit free edition will allow you to open games that exceed the free edition limit in read-only mode to take a look at.

    * Edited for clarity.

    If the free version has like 100 events limit like C2 it will be borderline useless. You cannot make anything that would make you really learn the software or that would convince you to buy it with 100 events.

    Forgetting a bit that I'm not even moving to C3 if it will be cloud-only (depending on how the "offline" version will work) and if it will be a subscription model, I wouldn't even consider buying it if I cannot fully test the product.

    For your future (as I won't be here for C3, unfortunetely), make it limitless in terms of events and features, but make it so you cannot export.

    Lets say the free version of C2 didn't make me wanna buy at first, I was not amazed what I could do with it, so I may or may not have used a "alternative" fully functional version that really showed me how powerful the program could be in a full project, which led me to buy it. Not only to support you or anything like that, but because that would be the purpose of it: really trying before buying. You may argue the ethic in it, but I find it to be ethical enough.

    With that said, because I and many others may or may not have done this, I understand you might be going to the subscription/cloud decision to exactly avoid that. But there is other ways to avoid it.

    Ah right I can see why people thought I was being a bit rude, in my haste I overlooked the second line in Newt's post! My apologies, all I meant to agree with was the opinion that it would of been worse if we did it the other way around.

    - When your subscription ends, you have full access until the date your next billing was meant to be taken

    - Free edition will be able to open any project in read-only mode.

    - Exported games will not be affected in any way at all

    - Your assets are yours, you can save them locally or in the cloud - up to you. We would never hold your exported game or game assets hostage.

    - Details about checks are not something we talk about too openly for obvious reasons, but we've always focused on making it invisible and painless for legitimate customers. We're confident there's not going to be any issues for anyone.

    I think if we could retain full access to the Editor to modify our projects after the initial subscription period and keep the same export options as the free edition (i.e. Web and Scirra Arcade), that would help alleviate some of the concerns of hobbyists.

    Basically when the subscription ends, all you lose is the extra export options (iOS, Android, Windows, Linux, Mac, etc.) and if you need those you pay an Annual Export License fee (subscription in a more acceptable guise) to give you 12 months access to all export options.

    This way only those who will use the Cloud Compilers the most will pay for them. You could even limit the free/post-subscription export options to once per day so they aren't overused.

    You could probably even get away with charging more for the first year if this was the case:

    Initial Payment $149 = Lifetime access to full features of Editor + 1 year Export License

    Further Payments $99 = 1 year Export License

    You could probably even get away with charging more for the first year if this was the case:

    Initial Payment $149 = Lifetime access to full features of Editor + 1 year Export License

    Further Payments $99 = 1 year Export License

    Very nice idea!

    Ah right I can see why people thought I was being a bit rude, in my haste I overlooked the second line in Newt's post! My apologies, all I meant to agree with was the opinion that it would of been worse if we did it the other way around.

    Ok..."apologies" accepted!

    you should have given us the bad news up front like you did, AND give some features that people can get excited about. Even one major feature.

    We did! It runs in the browser. That's a huge feature. Maybe some people are sceptical, but it works beautifully. You can't get the feel of it from screenshots, you'll just have to wait for the public beta.

    > you should have given us the bad news up front like you did, AND give some features that people can get excited about. Even one major feature.

    >

    We did! It runs in the browser. That's a huge feature. Maybe some people are sceptical, but it works beautifully. You can't get the feel of it from screenshots, you'll just have to wait for the public beta.

    I love it. I can work on my project at work when no-one sees. *sinister laugh* If it can do pretty much what C2 does at the moment I'm sold. The only thing i'm hoping for is for it to run well on edge, as I'm not a big fan of chrome, but no biggie for now.

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