Announcement PR wreck so far...

    I believe we can disregard any differences between win7 and win10 until Chrome stops being updated for win7 or win7 can't benefit from specific functions.

    Especially since in C3 it's all browser based and even works fine on a ChromeBook

    The only major changes between win10 and win7 that are coming is new CPU support for AMD Ryzen, which I doubt will affect browsers. Someone will probably at the very least make an open source driver for ReactOS that may work with Win7 just fine for that.

    https://www.reactos.org/

    I believe we can disregard any differences between win7 and win10 Chrome stops being updated for win7 or win7 can't benefit from specific functions.

    Especially since in C3 it's all browser based and even works fine on a ChromeBook

    The only major changes between win10 and win7 that are coming is new CPU support for AMD Ryzen, which I doubt will affect browsers. Someone will probably at the very least make an open source driver for ReactOS that may work with Win7 just fine for that.

    https://www.reactos.org/

    Huh, Chrome stops being updated for Win7, the op system C2 is approved for???

    Ashley and Tom, .. I do love C1 and really love C2, I couldn't thank you more and will definitely support C3. Report issues and promote the product. Personally $99 annual is fine on my end, obviously not for everyone. Saying the price up front is definitely bold and honest way of dealing things early on. I see alot of people here are willing to pay a certain recurring payment amount, if you can somehow device a way to make a price tier that will cater to everyone's needs. It will also increase your paying audience. BTW great screenshots for C3 running in chrome. Thanks.

    Imagine ( $99*10,000(paying users) ) / 12 months = $82,500 only for monthly gross. Everyone should know that this amount is very small if you are maintain quality staffs, employees, servers, paying tax and rentals. For all other people complaining give these guys some credits! They will provide a free version of C3 and C2 is still supported so lets provide a decent support for scirra.

    No corporate pitty train, save it for a charity fundraiser.

    To be honest, being up front is better. And by the way, everyone is so riled up that they will back every friday to check on the new announcements so there is plenty of time to convince everyone. If you have as many new features as there are fridays left I'm going to be happy.

    >

    > I hope that the subscription model fails miserably and so learn to listen to the community

    >

    Ah, that's poor form. You shouldn't ever wish failure on anyone. It's easy to be bummed, but take a breather on that thinking.

    You're wrong, it's not personal, I do not wish bad things to anyone, I was going to buy C3, but I do not want a subscriptions system, that's why I want it to fail, but I do not want C3 to fail, only the subscriptions system

    can you understand it?

    With all the talk of the other software I took a look at Clickteam's Fusion 2.5.. Wow, it looks like it would be so easy to jump right in, it looks SO similar to C2 (who came first?).. Nice gallery of games (several I recognize on Xbox One), good pricing scheme..

    Clickteam fusion came first. Clickteam goes way back to the 90ies, when they released KLIK&PLAY- the grand daddy of the event sheet visual programming style.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickteam

    I am not exactly sure how the story went, but it is said that scirra devs used to be clickteam fusion users. Then they broke away from it and created construct. Clickteam saw that as a betrayal - as construct built and improved upon a lot of the design ideas in fusion. The two have been competing ever since and both have pros and cons

    I found fusion devs and community to be very very welcoming in general. When I bought it years ago, the original founder personally contacted me via email and answered some of my questions. One thing to note is that Fusion has many mainstream games for a number of different platforms - much much more than construct has. 5 nights at freddy's for example was made in it. The reason for that is most probably the better performance. Currently fusion 2.5's event sheet is clunkier than construct's, but previews of fusion 3 show that clickteam is working hard to make the event sheet and code reusal way better than construct's current design. They are competition to be reckoned with, as they have many years of experience over scirra and their developer community has released many successful games - again many more than construct's

    I wouldn't go through the trouble of warning scirra about this if I wasn't concerned about the future of construct3 with the new licensing model and their release timing being around the time clickteam releases fusion 3. It is most unfortunate

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    Currently fusion 2.5's event sheet is clunkier than construct's, but previews of fusion 3 show that clickteam is working hard to make the event sheet and code reusal way better than construct's current design.

    Can you show me how are they trying to make it better? For what I've heard they'll keep the old event system. I was surprised by that, but if they do remake, I'd take a look at how they plan on doing so.

    >

    > >

    > > I hope that the subscription model fails miserably and so learn to listen to the community

    > >

    >

    > Ah, that's poor form. You shouldn't ever wish failure on anyone. It's easy to be bummed, but take a breather on that thinking.

    >

    You're wrong, it's not personal, I do not wish bad things to anyone, I was going to buy C3, but I do not want a subscriptions system, that's why I want it to fail, but I do not want C3 to fail, only the subscriptions system

    can you understand it?

    No, you're wrong! It's very personal.

    You said "I hope that the subscription model fails miserably and so learn to listen to the community". First of all you're saying that you personally want it to fail...

    Second, you want it to fail so that you don't have to buy a subscription system. That sounds pretty personal too.

    If the subscription system is a massive success, then that's only a bad thing for you, because you don't want to pay it.

    So now you're coming across as inconsiderate, selfish and lacking in moral character. Finally, the fact you came back to argue against these blatant points also makes you foolish.

    As I keep saying, I don't care about the subscriptions. People want to learn Game Dev? Learn using Construct 2, or any number of other dev tools. I'll try C3 for the first year, then weigh up my options.

    Just please, Scirra, release some actual features that game developers might find useful or interesting, not features that are only really interesting to you guys.

    So far we've just seen what looks like Construct 2 working in a Chrome tab. I haven't seen anything worth an upgrade price.

    Speaking of which, Chrome crashed on me yesterday out of the blue. Gave me cause for concern...

    > Currently fusion 2.5's event sheet is clunkier than construct's, but previews of fusion 3 show that clickteam is working hard to make the event sheet and code reusal way better than construct's current design.

    >

    Can you show me how are they trying to make it better? For what I've heard they'll keep the old event system. I was surprised by that, but if they do remake, I'd take a look at how they plan on doing so.

    Fusion 3 that is coming out later this year has a development blog

    The new event sheet will have sub events and you will be able to create event sheet hierarchies

    http://www.clickteam.com/fusion-3-devel ... ?f3id=8656

    http://www.clickteam.com/fusion-3-devel ... ?f3id=8607

    You will be also able to create plugins for the engine by using the event sheet - no programming knowledge required.

    Check out the other entries in the dev blog, some of the new features are very interesting

    http://www.clickteam.com/fusion-3-development-blog

    If you would like to request features for the event sheet, feel free to drop by ct's forum and state your thoughts

    AnD4D You do not understand what i mean

    por cierto te lo dire en español

    No hay más necio que el que no quiere entender ni aprender.

    AnD4D You do not understand what i mean

    por cierto te lo dire en español

    No hay más necio que el que no quiere entender ni aprender.

    They said: By the way, I'll tell you in Spanish

    There is no more fool than he who does not want to understand or learn

    So I replied:

    Tal vez la barrera del idioma es un problema.

    Which means: Maybe the language barrier is a problem.

    > AnD4D You do not understand what i mean

    >

    > por cierto te lo dire en español

    >

    > No hay más necio que el que no quiere entender ni aprender.

    >

    Tal vez la barrera del idioma es un problema.

    Come on people, you know the rules.

    Please post in English or provide an English translation. I have no idea what's going on here :/

    Listen, I have nothing against Scirra because I've worked for a long time on a game in C2 and am about to release it (even though I gripe a lot). My biggest peeve with C2 is the almost complete lack of documentation of anything really useful. The manual is extremely sparse. And you're expected to hunt for little bits and pieces of useful code in dozens of different sources, tutorials, and videos, and everyone gets on your case if you didn't do a zillion Google searches (well that used to be the case, not anymore; the community has gotten a lot better or maybe those used to be fake accounts). This literally leads to hundreds of hours of frustration and wasted time for software that's supposed to be "intuitive" and "user friendly." I'm pretty sure Scirra, if not the founder has made millions at this point. Honestly, what would it cost, just to hire a person to concatenate all the most useful examples and codes in some time of library or preferably the manual, which from a layman's perspective is a joke.

    This is supposed to be software to make our lives easier, and honestly, for someone who's over 40, it has been a nightmare. It has gotten easier with a lot of support from the community, which has been great (and all it took was a 4 year part-time apprenticeship haha), but not before I had to pull my hair out. Some of it has been useful because I learned a lot, but honestly the curve could have been significantly shortened by someone who cared.

    I get the feeling C3 is going to be the same way. There is a remarkable lack of caring in terms of making the software user friendly and easy to learn which is exactly what C2 purports to do.

    #

    I totally agree with you in every aspect with the lack of documentation

    I couldn't agree more with you, I have exactly the same problem I don't think is the age or anything like that, I'm still on middle thirty and i experienced the same

    The lack of documentation is frustrating because you end up going in circles without any direction, back and forwards like you stated we have to keep finding (bits and pieces of useful code in dozens of different sources, tutorials, and videos) like a puzzle, witch that way, I ended Up with nearly close to two years now learning C2 and still I haven't got any foundation to start and finish a game. And is not because I'm lazy or i don't have the time, because i spend endless of days and nights looking, studying and learning none stop because I really wanna learn, but the funny thing the most time consuming is searching for the right tutorial, capx, etc.... and it doesn't end there some times you spend weeks trying to find out how to do just one thing and when you finally find it, later on, you find another tutorial wich contradicts the first one. and that is very frustrating.

    or some times you spend weeks months studying a particular tutorials for a concrete subject trying to understand in the best possible way, to find out later on another tutorial with different info and WTF, just to learn that the info in the first tutorial were you spent time and effort it was outdated because was from 3 or 4 years ago wich makes those tutorials outdated.

    Then Guess what? you say to yourself ok maybe I'm not ready for any medium or big game so lets make a mini game and target the mobiles, so i can start and finish my first game and learn that way maybe is quicker and more rewarding much easier. so you enter in the second loop circle (screen sizes?aspect ratios?memory management? how many objects? how much CPU? don't put this behavior!! don't put that, don't put those effects!! some tutorials says one thing another one other things and you OOOOOMG!!!!

    And If that wasn't enough you keep hearing all those horrible histories about exporting night mears etc....so you say man this is even worse how I'm going to do this? back to the beginning again star from zero let go back to PC platforms games and you keep going like this in circles.

    So the point here is, if we had the right tutorials from the beginning the right documentation the best capx examples from the most important things that a game must have in each category, platform, RPG, etc......And all of it was in One place or section were are all the tutorials and capx are up to date not from 5 years ago, and some one maintaining it to keep them clean old from new. the most up to date info.

    the things that took us years to learn maybe would have been just months if we had the right guide from the beginning and in one place.

    I'm pretty sure this is happening to many people using C2 especially beginners like me, and I'm pretty sure that is why you don't see many success Games with C2, because its very hard to learn foundation without the right tutorials and guides. you get just confusion and not confidence in your self+ you spend 10 times more than you should have spent in learning.

    The best part if is than correctly every one will win, example:

    1-people who bout C2 or c3 will learn how to use C3 quicker, you will see more successful games more often that means more promotion for C3

    2-scirra will have more people attracted to C3 = more sells = higher more people to work with C3= More awesome features for C3 = company grows

    If it was me that i sell C2 or C3 i will make every effort to teach my customers the best and quickest possible ways on how to use my software to use the full power of my software + teach them how to make the games, tips on different ways of doing things and wich ones are with the best performances etc...... so they can be more chances that any of my customers can become successful, because that's mean more publicity for my business = more money to spend on higher more programers or teachers etc....... + more support for mobiles making it easier.

    And I could say many more things but I think you get the point.

    All of this I say it in the good way as an advice from my experience.

    zenox98 I updated my post... which is now full of irony

    I work in Sales and Marketing as my day job.

    In actuality people for the most part do not like change. Everybody knew that Scirra was working on C3. Everybody was hopeful for a new and wonderful engine. But with new technology comes other changes as well. Tom and Ashley are smart guys, they knew their desire to reign in control of C3 from pirating and to turn the company into a routine revenue driven business was going to upset most people who used their product.

    So yeah, breaking the news first about C3 with things that people were not going to like, then slowing over the course of the months that lead up to release spread word of the better features is going to make people come around. It makes sense.

    Bad publicity is still publicity and it gets a lot of attention. Then in the following Blog releases start to paint a prettier picture and things look brighter and better. Three weeks from now people are going to be eager for C3, and the initial news is going to fade and be less obtrusive when thinking about a subscription service.

    I too was not overly thrilled about the news initially released. But I am very curious to see what features are coming, and already from the past couple days I am coming around to C3. I'm not the only.

    There are a lot ways to do PR. I think Tom and Ashley know exactly what they are doing, and why they broke the initial news release the way they did. People don't like change. It takes them time to come around to certain things. And a subscription service is a big change to the way Scirra has been doing things.

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