forum getting mean to newcomers lately

isn't it though?

if you think this is about you, it probably is, (not just one person)

stop it. if you have over a hundred posts, you a reflection on the tone of the entire community.

the rest of us are not interested in being lumped in with the image you're projecting.

these forums have maintained a reputation of being welcoming, and helpful.

not meanspirited, cliquelike, and elitist.

if you're in a bad mood, or a post makes you angry, or makes you feel superior to someone who doesn't understand construct yet. find another outlet.

people who haven't been here using the software don't owe us some kind of awe-inspired respect. they're free to be skeptical and cynical and wrong about construct. and chances are you don't know enough about construct or software development in general to talk down to even a total noob.

it's the very fact that construct contradicts everything we've come to assume about software development that makes it so noteworthy. people don't need to be attacked for their incorrect assumptions. it should be the expected initial reaction. you should be helping usher them into understanding the differences, helping adapt their way of thinking toward the event/picking driven construct way, pointing them in the right direction for help, or providing encouragement. if that doesn't sound like something worth your time or effort, than perhaps you should save the reply button for when you have something more constructive to add.

isn't it though?

if you think this is about you, it probably is, (not just one person)

stop it. if you have over a hundred posts, you a reflection on the tone of the entire community.

the rest of us are not interested in being lumped in with the image you're projecting.

these forums have maintained a reputation of being welcoming, and helpful.

not meanspirited, cliquelike, and elitist.

if you're in a bad mood, or a post makes you angry, or makes you feel superior to someone who doesn't understand construct yet. find another outlet.

people who haven't been here using the software don't owe us some kind of awe-inspired respect. they're free to be skeptical and cynical and wrong about construct. and chances are you don't know enough about construct or software development in general to talk down to even a total noob.

it's the very fact that construct contradicts everything we've come to assume about software development that makes it so noteworthy. people don't need to be attacked for their incorrect assumptions. it should be the expected initial reaction. you should be helping usher them into understanding the differences, helping adapt their way of thinking toward the event/picking driven construct way, pointing them in the right direction for help, or providing encouragement. if that doesn't sound like something worth your time or effort, than perhaps you should save the reply button for when you have something more constructive to add.

Well I've been saying the same thing (when I joined I wasn't treated all that great myself and it's put me on the defensive since), and I've also been trying to come up with some kind of middleground that everyone can be happy with. Check out my recent thread in the feature request section.

I'm all for this as long as the users who are posting don't get mean with us, i looked back on my posts and the only meanness Ive conjured up has been today, because of some users overreaction to what i told him. other than that Ive only offered help here and there to everyone asking in a very respectful and straightforward way. it seems the rudeness only arises with the more experienced among us when the users start throwing stuff around as if they know better, posting large walls of text about how they're right about needing some needless feature and how what were saying is completely wrong, when we were simply offering to help.

so is it us being mean to newcomers, or simply an influx of thick skulled, stubborn users have joined , who haven't experimented enough with construct to understand and accept that they're wrong.

LostMyKeys a really new user at first was a little stubborn but after playing with construct for a little over half a month has steadily improved to be quite the respectful and understands constructs nuances like the "ancients" around here. i think we just need to give this suddent influx some time to play with construct and enforce a little better posting guidelines about what exactly should be asked, mostly shunning the creation of "can Construct do this threads" and replacing them with "How can i do this in Construct threads".

and what i just said was inspired by a post by our good friend, LostMyKeys

EDIT: hah seems he posted as i was writing this

Patience. Deep breaths.

I know I'm not the most patient person when it comes to the same questions being asked over and over again, but when faced with that one should never start flinging invectives or starting flamewars, like what happened in a recent thread that shall not be named . Pointing out where someone is wrong is fine, calling someone ignorant or thick-skulled isn't fine. It's rather rude.

Like Ash said recently in another thread, if someone is asking a common question, just point them to the faq, wiki, and tutorials. If they press the issue, invite them to start experimenting for themselves and point them towards Help/Tech.

If someone is asking for a feature that is impossible, unnecessary, or outlandish, just explain to them as best and as politely as you can that it won't work. If they press the issue, you should probably just drop it. It's not like it's ever going to get made anyway, so why start fighting over it? They've already got their answer, if they're not satisfied then I'm sorry but that's their own issue. No need to add animosity on top of disappointment.

I did read that nameless thread and I must say he asked for it

I do wish him luck in his endeavor though... but when someone disregards every advice and even feels offended by the advice given... yeah I get pissed too.

I recommend abandoning such threads. Lost causes. Some people don't really want to hear the truth.

I did read that nameless thread and I must say he asked for it

Asked for what? To get insulted? To start a flame war? Because I don't recall anyone asking for anything of the sort.

Nobody is "asking for it" by asking questions or debating ideas, no matter what you might think of those questions or ideas. And being stubborn, or being wrong, is not an invitation to have crap thrown at you.

Lost causes. Some people don't really want to hear the truth.

Calling someone a lost cause isn't exactly helpful, either. Neither is assuming they're just pig-headed. Maybe they don't understand. If you want to try to help them understand something, feel free. But it's not cool to harp on someone when they don't get it.

At any rate, it seems that there was a lot of misunderstanding going on on both sides in that thread. No one person was solely to blame, and I think we can all agree it could have been handled a lot better.

LostMyKeys a really new user at first was a little stubborn but after playing with construct for a little over half a month has steadily improved to be quite the respectful and understands constructs nuances like the "ancients" around here. i think we just need to give this suddent influx some time to play with construct and enforce a little better posting guidelines about what exactly should be asked, mostly shunning the creation of "can Construct do this threads" and replacing them with "How can i do this in Construct threads".

and what i just said was inspired by a post by our good friend, LostMyKeys

EDIT: hah seems he posted as i was writing this

Hehehe

Well in my case I found construct along with lots of claims that -anything- was possible. Naturally I'm going to be skeptical about claims like that. Played with it, looked through the wiki, forum posts. Seeing how easy it was to do a lot of things, but expecting the other shoe to fall, for there being something ready to bite me on the ass and ruin my good mood of thinking I finally found what I was looking for. So figured I'd ask, and use past games as examples. But was met with "yeah you can do that" or "it's easy", which to someone in my position, isn't really that helpful. Looking back, I should have explained I'm not some programmer. But the event system doesn't come across as requiring complex mathematics to use for a lot of things until you start to get down to it. Therefore I was initially given the impression I'd found a place with like-minded individuals, mostly made up of Artists, where programmers were in the minority.

So yeah, first impressions of construct does make you think that it can do everything in a very simple way. It's not until later that you realize to do anything worthwhile, it gets a bit more complicated (unlike a straight scripting language which is daunting from the second you first come face to face with it).

For what it's worth though, I do apologize for my behavior when I first got here, though considering recent events, I was positively polite back then! haha.

So I don't believe the other new users intend to be frustrating or annoying (well with the odd exception or two - construct is not going to turn into Kodu dammit! lol). I think they're given the same impression I was, then are surprised when it's not quite that simple after all (but still not complicated, once you've got used to it, it's really easy.. except the math thing, but that's my problem lol).

As for the veteran users. I think some may forget that they were new once too, and perhaps they've grown with construct (some users are registered 2007 for example), and like anything, to grow with something, makes it almost second nature to you, as you both develop and change together. Could compare it to the analogy of growing up with your real dad, only for your mom to leave him when you turn 17 and marry a new guy. No matter what the new guy does, he's gonna screw up, and he wont automatically know you're allergic to peanuts either, hehe.

As for the nameless thread. For what it's worth, he took it too far and pushed people's buttons. But I think he did it simply to big himself up and feel like part of what he saw as an experienced talented crowd (because lets face it, being the "new kid" always sucks and nobody likes being in that position). Pretending he worked for EA and so on. So I don't think he was being an ass on purpose, just greatly misinformed.

As for the nameless thread. For what it's worth, he took it too far and pushed people's buttons.

It's worth exactly nothing. Quit trying to pin that clusterfuck on the new guy. Several people contributed to the situation, there is no one person to blame. Was he a part of it? Yes, but so were many others. Pretty much everyone was out of line, so everyone needs to quit pointing fingers and just agree to be on better behavior next time around.

Just blame it on the garden gnomes. Seriously, they're there, peering through windows and waiting for me not to pay attention so that they can make a mess out of my life. I just know it.

Especially that pea eyed one. He's up to no good. Last I saw him holding a shovel... dirtied shovel. Come to think of it, where has my dog gone? Brb, checking.

<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/666516/Rodney_Knome.png">

clusterfuck

on the new guy.

That's a funny word.

anyway I don't think the forum getting mean to newcomers

It is just that when they post with out any research or

post in the discussion part of the forum and argue badly with people

who don't see things your way.

People gets .

(I mean really, that new guy he seriously brought anger and frustration out of them)

That why when I see thing getting heated up I through in a joke or two

to cool thing a bit.

Use these guys to keep thing form sounding to harsh.

I think generally this forum is a welcoming and productive community - I try hard to keep it that way and prevent it becoming your typical internet furnace of flaming, while also allowing people to be liberal in what they say. It's a difficult (even contradictory) balancing act, but I won't stop trying, I'm sure it's possible. Most other forums I know either let the flamewars rage (even with admins joining in!) or simply shrug and delete anything borderline, and I don't like those extremes.

Also I don't buy for a second any of this "he started it" rubbish. If someone is rude to you in real life, the best way to deal with it is keep cool. Think what a third party impartial observer sees - if they see two people shouting each other down, they don't care for either person. If one is getting angry and rude and the other is politely and cooly trying to sort things out, you're obviously going to side with the calm one. It works in real life, and it works on a forum too. I don't see why so many people don't get that and still try to fight fire with fire.

Most other forums I know either let the flamewars rage (even with admins joining in!) or simply shrug and delete anything borderline, and I don't like those extremes.

I think there should be a

Flame Wars!

thread where people fight it out.

It could be a Pay For View type of thing.

Come on!

I know your out there!

Anybody!

Fine, be that way.

Also I don't buy for a second any of this "he started it" rubbish. If someone is rude to you in real life, the best way to deal with it is keep cool. Think what a third party impartial observer sees - if they see two people shouting each other down, they don't care for either person. If one is getting angry and rude and the other is politely and cooly trying to sort things out, you're obviously going to side with the calm one. It works in real life, and it works on a forum too. I don't see why so many people don't get that and still try to fight fire with fire.

Only if they know.

the "nameless" thread was one catalyst that made me write this, yes. but honestly its been a general vibe im getting from here lately. ranging from these flame wars to more subtle "help" threads, where it seems like the "helper" is spending more time expressing how easy everything is, if they would just accept scirra as their lord and savior blindly, rather than the 2 seconds it would take to whip up a cap file, demonstrating everything and post it along with some pointers to the wiki and the platform school.

its all shifted from a "let me show you an easy way to do that" feel, to a "whats wrong with you? dont you see how easy this is?" feel.

its not everyone, not even the majority, but given how scarcely i read through some of the forums lately, its enough that i noticed it, so id imagine weve turned off some potential users.

this is the one package where you can answer someones quesstion within 5 minutes with an actual working example. thats what makes people flock to construct. im just saying, construct is further along than ever. nowss the time where we can really show this thing off. dont take it upon yourselves to turn the community into an elitest member's only club

be helpful in help threads, and if someone hates math too much to achieve a certain thing, or someone has a misguided feature request, or criticism for construct, be civil, or leave the thread alone. youre not impressing anyone. this is not the place for your power trip. there are only a handful of peopl who are really godly with construct, and theyre usually not the problem. leave the godliness to construct itself, and help the newcomers find the light

its all shifted from a "let me show you an easy way to do that" feel, to a "whats wrong with you? dont you see how easy this is?" feel.

I think that's an important one to remember, I myself often forget what it's like to start using a program and not have much idea how to get going with it, and not to assume they know certain things. If anyone posts any really basic questions though, just send them to the tutorials/FAQ page.