I'm worried about the future.

'd say though that if the subscription model isn't at least tweaked a bit there might be a bit of an exodus.

I don't think people are going to leave because Scirra introduces an engine designed for hardcore mobile game designers.

Dodge makes a Viper that is super fast with lots of frills that I could never afford or want but I still buy and love Dodge vehicles.

As long as Scirra keeps supporting and updating C2 and doesn't throw us out we will still be here and I have tried just about every engine out there and for fast design with good support for beginners and advanced users I don't think any engine beats C2 at this time.

ADDED: I do think Tom and Ashley should make it clear they will continue support and update C2 and relieve some of the fears people have and that could have been handled better with the rollout of C3. There are still issues with C2 and the website, forum and arcade that should also be addressed and fixed before a big rollout and they are working on those issues. I also think it is long past time for a 3D plugin for C2 and that is what I am waiting for.

> 'd say though that if the subscription model isn't at least tweaked a bit there might be a bit of an exodus.

>

I don't think people are going to leave because Scirra introduces an engine designed for hardcore mobile game designers.

Dodge makes a Viper that is super fast with lots of frills that I could never afford or want but I still buy and love Dodge vehicles.

As long as Scirra keeps supporting and updating C2 and doesn't throw us out we will still be here and I have tried just about every engine out there and for fast design with good support for beginners and advanced users I don't think any engine beats C2 at this time.

ADDED: I do think Tom and Ashley should make it clear they will continue support and update C2 and relieve some of the fears people have and that could have been handled better with the rollout of C3. There are still issues with C2 and the website, forum and arcade that should also be addressed and fixed before a big rollout and they are working on those issues. I also think it is long past time for a 3D plugin for C2 and that is what I am waiting for.

Not everyone is interested in mobile design though. I couldn't care less about it, but then there are those to which it means everything. Everyone wants something different but they can't cater to everyone. Also, from a business perspective it would make sense to kill off support for C2 pretty quickly because if it's an attractive alternative to C3 people won't migrate. I think the main problem is that many of us who used Construct Classic or Construct 2 are now no longer in the target demographic for construct 3. It will certainly suit small studios who endlessly pump out mobile games every quarter very well so it may attract new users who have that mentality. I'll be keeping an eye on it, but will certainly be looking at other options now too.

As a professional developer, I might just say that you have to consider each software as a tool in your toolbox.

If you plan to do this professionally (or you are), sticking with only one app for whatever creation you do is a gamble.

[quote:2dypuglv]

Not everyone is interested in mobile design though. I couldn't care less about it, but then there are those to which it means everything. Everyone wants something different but they can't cater to everyone.

True, in my case I have evaluated a load of software before landing on C2 which I consider the best for what I do.

ADDED: I do think Tom and Ashley should make it clear they will continue support and update C2 and relieve some of the fears people have and that could have been handled better with the rollout of C3. There are still issues with C2 and the website, forum and arcade that should also be addressed and fixed before a big rollout and they are working on those issues. I also think it is long past time for a 3D plugin for C2 and that is what I am waiting for.

They did make it clear. Read the blog posts, the confirmation is there. Tom also posted in the forum responding to similar concerns. TL:DR C2 will be supported and fixed in the future.

Stuff like a better event search, or cloud-compile could had been implemented in C2 without much stress.

And Ashley already said that C2 has reached maturity (or something like that), so yeah ... in my opinion, it will only receive bug fixes and minor features.

But on the other hand, you still can use C2 without subscription, so is something

And if C3 subscriptions will not reach the anticipated results, maybe give C2 access to cloud-compile (for a price of course).

We even have users that come here to inform us about other software.

I don't think people are going to leave because Scirra introduces an engine designed for hardcore mobile game designers.

Are we talking about the same engine that has questionable performance on mobile devices and lots of issues ? (sound, black screen, plugins not compatible with wrapper... etc). And don't forget to "optimize"

Don't know what was the leave rate anticipated by Scirra Team, but I can bet that more then half of the current users will leave for another engine.

There are still issues with C2 and the website, forum and arcade that should also be addressed and fixed before a big rollout and they are working on those issues.

Hope they will be better prepared when C3 will go live.

As for C3... Well, Stencyl, Gamesalad and BuildBox have subscriptions and are still going, so there is place for C3, only not with the current userbase.

But don't forget that the engines mentioned before have a showcase with games that were very popular, I can't say the same for C2/C3

Wouldn't surprise me if we have a few people on here using this rollout of C3 to bad mouth Scirra and try and drag away their users to some other engine.

Just saying

Scirra has an engine that does have advantages over other engines. The editor is incredibly intuitive and it is a great entry point for anyone who wants to learn programming theory.

Its event sheet is probably the best implementation of visual scripting in an engine at the moment.

I do like the awesome new features in construct3 editor that are revealed.

That said, we should not stop ourselves from discussing the pros and cons of other existing engines.

Let us not close our eyes at what awesome stuff is out there!

When people start talking about godot for example, I will say what features it has and wish construct3 gets, but also note the downside that can be potentially a stopper for many users here - the need to learn the scripting language and read the api reference - regardless of how easy that actually is. I also noted that its approach to visual programming (which is optional) is bad imo. That spaghetti node stuff is only good for state machines.

I think it's actually good if people talk about other engines, because that gives developers example material and input that might be valuable. Some plugin contributor might see a discussion about another game engine and say- hey I bet I can make an addon for construct that adds that!

It is however against the forum rules to directly promote moving to another game engine. That would get the thread locked

To chip in the discussion of performance on mobile - engines that compile native apk do not need wrappers, so the html5 export in them is not really targeted to be put in a wrapper. The developers would just export a native apk/exe without a wrapper- thus get a better performant game that has a smaller file size and none of the problems of the wrapper one. The html5 export is then strictly for targeting web browsers- games hosted on websites. That is still very useful if you want to put out a demo with zero setup requirements.

Construct 2 has an incredibly strong & intuitive Editor. - easy to use and still most Topics covered

Monkey X seems to have an incredibly strong codework. - complex and still very compact & nifty

These two components combined could be a masterpiece.

Flame me if i'm wrong.

Wouldn't surprise me if we have a few people on here using this rollout of C3 to bad mouth Scirra and try and drag away their users to some other engine.

Just saying

Not seeing many low rep posters so far.

Scirra has an engine that does have advantages over other engines. The editor is incredibly intuitive and it is a great entry point for anyone who wants to learn programming theory.

It isn't the only one, it wasn't the first, it's currently the best but it probably won't be when it's grandfather gets a rewrite later this year...

The new subscription model is what it is and we have to respect that Scirra decision. Like somebody else wrote, most members here are not used to this kind of model.

I do not believe Scirra is aiming with C3 to hardcore game developers. I do make small games for our small daughter of 8. She even gives away those games to her friends. Other activities will cover for the subscription cost each year, which is not a problem.

When 99 USD each year is really too much, then maybe a monthly fee of lets say 12 USD will get you over the line? In this way, you do not have to pay 99 USD at once and you can skip your subscription for months you are not using C3.

That was only my idea, like I would have done it if I was in Scirra's place. But as a normal user, I have to respect the new subscription model, which in my opinion, will work.

I think a lot of young people with limited financial resources are using Scirra and if this is true, I can only be very positive about the fact that they improve their creativity this way. In my opinion, Scirra should take that group in serious consideration because they are the developers of tomorrow.

Lets wait and see when the first public betas are released. Don't let fears ruling your game development life.

I think a lot of young people with limited financial resources are using Scirra and if this is true, I can only be very positive about the fact that they improve their creativity this way. In my opinion, Scirra should take that group in serious consideration because they are the developers of tomorrow.

Lets wait and see when the first public betas are released. Don't let fears ruling your game development life.

I agree however there is a legal aspect to subscription contracts that I have brought up to Tom.

In the US a minor under 18 can not enter in to a contract without parent's consent and a subscription is a contract and involves ongoing automatic monthly credit card transactions.

Most minors don't have their own credit cards so that limits their ability to get C3 unless they use their parent's credit card and if the parent is not aware that little johnny or Janey was getting an ongoing subscription with an ongoing monthly charge I can see parents getting very upset when they see that monthly or yearly charge and causing legal headaches for Scirra for forming contracts with minors without parents consent.

That has happened several times with subscription services in the US and most subscription services in the US now require a parent or guardian to sign an affidavit stating they know it is a subscription and they are responsible for that subscription not the child.

So by going to a subscription model Scirra may be limiting C3 to people over 18 only which cuts out a lot of people now using C2 or the free version and it may raise legal headaches down the road.

I am not in any way trying to intimate that Scirra would intentionally do anything illegal and contract laws are very tricky.

Just my opinion and I am not an attorney and I suggest Scirra get legal advice on their subscription model and every country has different rules on contracts and subscription services.

Stuff like a better event search, or cloud-compile could had been implemented in C2 without much stress.

This is not the case at all. In particular the "find all references" feature was largely made possible by comprehensive redesign of the event system architecture, which we did as part of rebuilding the editor for C3.

Editor-integrated webfonts are another case where doing it in a desktop app would have been far more difficult.

It's easy to say "but they could have done that in their old software", but you can't see the technical realities behind the scenes.

I am not in any way trying to intimate that Scirra would intentionally do anything illegal and contract laws are very tricky.

I think when a developer under 18 years old sign upin the US, it's not the service provider's fault (but I'm no attorney either). Literally anyone can create a PayPal, how could the companies check that the information their subscribers provide of themselves are valid?

> I am not in any way trying to intimate that Scirra would intentionally do anything illegal and contract laws are very tricky.

>

I think when a developer under 18 years old sign upin the US, it's not the service provider's fault (but I'm no attorney either). Literally anyone can create a PayPal, how could the companies check that the information their subscribers provide of themselves are valid?

That is the problem and it can cause legal issues. Subscriptions have to exclude minors or require some form of verifiable parent consent and both options will limit your customer base or can still be bypassed by smart kids and end up causing legal headaches.

An attorney is the best one to explain what subscription models avoid those problems.