nw.dll weighs ~90mb of my 130 mb game, what is it?

You're determined to rhetorically divide the size of your final game into the regular content and the "additional" content from nw.js - in fact you keep using that word "additional" over and over again. But that breakdown seems arbitrary to me.

All game builds will end up using some space for assets and other space for engine and engine libraries. Both are part of the game, neither is an extraneous addition. Scirra shouldn't really have to specifically point out that the engine will take up space any more than they should have to tell you the other assets (graphics, music, etc.) will.

Once again I am forced to repeat what I have written previously.

Scirra should provide me with enough information so that I am sure what I am buying without any surprises to an extent. Once again I will repeat myself:

No ability to export NW.js in free version, no information anywhere about size after export. This could have been easily handled in a good manner. Is this really asking for too much?

You are saying that engines have their space ("use some space") for use of their system files/engine files whatever you want to call them. Fine.

BUT creating a 5mb game (and I am constantly giving this example because this was something I had planned) and adding 60mb worth of engine files to it and calling that combination one game is just ridiculous to me. That is a 1200% increase. Now is that some space?

If you ask someone for some bread do you expect 1200 loaves of bread in return? How would you put "some" in proportion to ones game content? Because that sure isnt how I would put "some" in proportion.

Do you still think that this drastic increase should not be specified in this situation? Did you read my previous examples of probable freelance work? Do you not understand what impact this might have yet this cannot be tested anywhere?

Well if you dont, it is because this did not and does not concern you directly, and as I am person that is totally unknown to you - my problems are not your problems - which is only natural.

Now as I said before I do not wish to discuss other engines here (and the sizes of their run-files if there are others that need to add so much additional balast and weight, and if there are if they mention this) as my intention is not to drive people off to competition. That is strictly the reason.

I think this topic has reached its peak point. There is no need for me to keep repeating what I am saying. I do not need to rub this in any more.

If people are having a hard time understanding this, well so be it. Everyone has their own brain so let everyone decide for themselves how they feel about this, even if it does not affect them directly. I am speaking for myself in this thread as I can only speak for myself.

If this does not convince owners of Scirra to add a notation or add a very strict and limited NW.js export to the free version (while a notation is totally fine - and so little work to add that somewhere in small font and an asterix), then nothing will.

What is important that this thread is here, and in the future if someone comes by and looks for answers in this matter, they will find them here and then they will make up their mind without surprises. If I only knew this one bit of information, that would mean a lot for me.

I still do think that Construct 2 is great to work with, this is the only issue I have found so far, but unfortunately for me it was quite important at the time.

I only wish this was either mentioned somewhere or handled differently as a source for me to see.

Actually you're making me have to repeat myself. Again, you haven't created a 5mb game and then added a 60mb addition to it. The game is not 5mb at all, its 65mb. The dll file in question is just as much part of the game as any other included files.

I suppose the documentation could be amended to say something like "games exported with NW.js will be at least X mb", but there's always a trade-off when choosing what information to include or highlight.

Quicksand

If you want to conversate further you are going to have to relate to what I have asked you in the post above.

But I have nothing more to add. My case is there with all my arguments.

Asked, and answered it is then.

It's no one's responsibility to foresee every scenario in your adventures into game dev, but your own.

They have provided information as to what it can do, as well as a forum to learn everything, for free.

No company, is going to make a selling point of what a product isn't designed for.

If this was the only issue you ever ran into making games, then you would be the luckiest person alive.

You're not, there will be true horror stories, and given this attitude you are likely to burn out way before the starting credits even roll.

newt

[quote:3hexhayf]It's no one's responsibility to foresee every scenario in your adventures into game dev, but your own.

Its my responsibility to forsee something that has not been mentioned anywhere? Are you reading what you are writing?

I did forsee what I planed on doing to the extent I could.

[quote:3hexhayf]No company, is going to make a selling point of what a product isn't designed for.

You have got to be joking. The product is not designed to produce games for PC standalone, with smaller runtime sizes? Where is that to learn?

Show me. Free version? Main page with features? Information is shown where?

[quote:3hexhayf]They have provided information as to what it can do, as well as a forum to learn everything, for free.

Point me to the information they provided regarding this information. Please do so. Prove it, go on as you as so sure of this. Point me where was this to be found. Go on. Show me how a starting out programmer can find this since it is not mentioned on the main page where the program that this concerns is sold.

[quote:3hexhayf]If this was the only issue you ever ran into making games, then you would be the luckiest person alive.

What is this statement? How is this an argument? What do I care? I have had a business contract sealed with a money transaction and it has not been totally transparent from my perspective for what I was to do and for what it was to do for me at that very moment in time. Other areas of C2? Fine but I am talking about my situation as it is my situation.

[quote:3hexhayf]You're not, there will be true horror stories, and given this attitude you are likely to burn out way before the starting credits even roll.

How is this an argument? How is this your business? This is your personal trip to me, as you dont have any arguments.

Why are you turning this personal? Do you want me to turn this personal? Do you want me to start inquiring into your personal business regarding game dev? Should I start to speculate and make my opinions based on thin air about your career?

Do you want me to start asking you to show what you have been doing from the time that you have started gam dev since it seems to be quite long as you have a 1st badge from C2, so I can asses if it is of any value/quality (from a playability level and especially from a visually aesthetic level since that is my expertise)? Would that be my business? Would that be professional? Of course not.

How is this adding anyhting but fire to this thread?

Did I attack you anywhere on a personal level? Do you not know how to hold up conversations and exchange arguments without personal trips?

If you would know anything, you would know one thing. A person that is meticulous in one area is meticulous in many areas. That is not a vice but a virtue. The difference between good content (not only games) and great content roams in the polishing phase, for which a person must be meticulous - as its the last most important 10 percent. Dont agree? I dont care. This thread is not about that, do not derail it.

I have plenty to show for in my career (character animation/graphic design/illustration) but that is none of your business, as this thread is not about that.

How is this comming from a long time registered user? I understand that you might be financially dependant on Construct 2 and thus you are prepared to defend it. This is not about defending C2.

Why are you still continuing this thread by not adding anything of value to it? Are you just posting just to quarrel?

I am only waiting for Ashley to *hopefuly* post one final post to adress my latest post to him.

You have had many chances to post, yet you post just after I have posted that there is no point in continuting this thread as all has been

already said, and you do so in that style - starting to make it personal? Is this normal forum behaviour?

Ps. Edits are mainly for typos as I have the dictionary turned off.

But I have nothing more to add. My case is there with all my arguments.

You still haven't said what you want, after posting like 20 pages full of text.

Do you want Scirra to change their product description? Make a suggestion.

Do you want your money back? Write to .

>

> But I have nothing more to add. My case is there with all my arguments.

>

You still haven't said what you want, after posting like 20 pages full of text.

Do you want Scirra to change their product description? Make a suggestion.

Do you want your money back? Write to .

Have I not? Fifth post from bottom on page five:

[quote:g1zuncbn]

If this does not convince owners of Scirra to add a notation or add a very strict and limited NW.js export to the free version (while a notation is totally fine - and so little work to add that somewhere in small font and an asterix), then nothing will.

Also have I not said I would like for Ashley to adress my latest post to him? Last post on page 5:

[quote:g1zuncbn]

I am only waiting for Ashley to *hopefuly* post one final post to adress my latest post to him.

Have I not? Fifth post from bottom on page five:

[quote:18e5uq5v]

If this does not convince owners of Scirra to add a notation or add a very strict and limited NW.js export to the free version (while a notation is totally fine - and so little work to add that somewhere in small font and an asterix), then nothing will.

I actually do support the asterisk* suggestion (for several reasons).

He is just trying to shame them into making it a policy to foresee every scenario.

Hundreds, perhaps thousands of issues op would demand to be told about before he even knew he needed to know.

Scenarios that include things they have no control of like third party wrappers.

That's the only absurdity here.

He made a novice assumption, and is now throwing a tantrum.

newt

Firstly as this is my thread if you want to participate I urge you to adress what I have written at you and not simply ignore it.

I have adressed a wall of text at you and you ignored it. What does that say about you when you ignore posts and still take participation in a forum thread? Manipulating much?

This is a discussion and not your monologue. Take it somewhere else if you are not prepared to enter an *adult* discusion.

If you do not know how to participate in forum discussion, I suggest you go read a FAQ somewhere.

If this was a different forum you would have been issued with a warning for creating flame.

[quote:kzu4pmzx]He is just trying to shame them into making it a policy to foresee every scenario.

I suggest you stop refering to me in third person in my thread. That is not very polite. You are going at this at a personal level and taking this further. You are behaving like a little child. Dont like what is written here? Then dont look at it, as clearly you dont have any arguments what so ever, noone. You are just stomping your little feet around this thread, just to make some noise - like a child that wants candy from mommy.

Nothing of essence or quality to say.

I am not trying to shame noone. It would be ridiculous for anyone to forsee *every* scenario.

Where did I write that? Where are you getting this assumption from? Why are you putting words into my mouth?

Do you know what reading with understanding is? Do you know how to base your arguments on text and on a discussion?

[quote:kzu4pmzx]Hundreds, perhaps thousands of issues op would demand to be told about before he even knew he needed to know.

How do you base this? Once again what is this, do you have problems with understanding basic text? Do you live in fairytale land?

Can you be less accurate than this in your comments?

[quote:kzu4pmzx]Scenarios that include things they have no control of like third party wrappers.

That's the only absurdity here.

He made a novice assumption, and is now throwing a tantrum.

The fact that someone - a company that wants to sell you their product - is using a third part wrapper which increases a size of a stand alone build should provide this information somewhere in small text at least. Do you not know that giving information about services/products one sells is important to the customer and necessary by law? I am almost afraid to ask on what basis do you sell your services to your customers? Judging by this you dont tell them anything, and then if they dont like something you just tell them they are throwing a tantrum.

No, the only absurdity here is your post with your false accusations.

Once again, visual coding is mailny for newcomers. That is a given. I say mainly. A newcomer is assesing a purchase on what he sees, reads, hears and most importantly tests out.

Throwing a tantrum? Are you serious? Then you dont know what standing behind what one believes in is. If you want to stay a pushover that is easily pressured into sumbission when there is something you dont like then be my guest. But go do it somewhere else and stop spamming my thread.

Why are you continuing to spam my thread with personal trips at my person?

Adressing me in third person, ignoring what I write to you in response to your posts? How is this normal usage of a forum? You are behaving like a little child at this very moment.

Why are you continuing to do this? Fame? Are you friends with the devs here as you seem to take this very personal? Does your entire livelyhood depend on something that I have mentioned in this thread?

Have you got nothing better to do on a sunday?

Do you want the mod to close this thread, as you are introducing flame here? Is that your motive?

Do you just feel like "chatting" because you have nothing better to do?

It is plain to see that it is you who is making this thread ugly. Perphaps you find this entertaining?

I suggest you stop spamming my thread if you have nothing relevant to say.

If you once more post and ignore what I am writing, then that only shows what you stand for - a nuisance in my thread.

At this moment your posts here are a total waste of space and at this moment by replying here you are wasting my time.

100+ mb is a non-issue for most people, especially if it's for a game that's taken a lot of effort to make.

100+ mb is a non-issue for most people, especially if it's for a game that's taken a lot of effort to make.

See now this is nice. A reply that is on subject without personal prejudice.

You are of course entitled to you opinion and I am entitled to disagree.

While 100mb might be a non-issue for most people (altough Im not sure what kind of people you are referring to, and on what sources you base this information), it is an issue for me. Just yesterday I was looking around and found a nice game - standalone for Windows, something down my alley - adventure, nice graphics and I downloaded it played it, nice experience. I looked at the filesize and thought to myself - 20 mb. Now isnt that an achievement? Nice graphics sounds and only 20mbs?

Now I will not mention what engine it was done in as I said Im not here to give away any names of potential competition.

Regaring "a lot of effort" as you stated. Clearly planning a game does reqiure some effort does it not? The more you plan, the more effort goes into the project, does it not? Then comes the next development phase etc. What if I told you that I planned for the size of my game? (of course not ideally, roughly but within a reasonable limit). What if I told you that I had to plan for the size of my game? Surely that is additional effort on my part?

So if I put effort into my game starting on a basic level/very early stage, of making sure that it does not weigh more than I want within a specific range, how does this relate to what you write - that people who put in effort to make a game do not worry about additional game weight?

How I would put what you have written:

100+mb is a non-issue for most starting indie game developers - as its another variable they have to take into consideration - which might be too much at the very start. Starting indies want to get something running. I know this I am a starting indie. But the difference is that I wanted that additional variable under control.

Remember one more thing, we are talking about indies as this is software mailny for indies. We are not talking about multimillon dollar game coorporations hiring hundreds of staff members and producing games that weigh +65 gb. That would be out of contex and out of perspective to this matter.

To sum this up - your statement is your statement. I respect your input.

My statement is my statement as I am entitled to my opinion.

I just don't think it matters, which is why we don't specifically highlight it on our site, and I'm OK with that. We also don't mention the HTML5 export has a ~245kb overhead, which is a 1200% overhead if your game is 20kb, because it doesn't materially affect anything. Sure, someone could claim they want to run their game over a 56k modem and that overhead is too much, but for such a significant majority of users, it is of no practical importance, so it does not warrant a mention. Since virtually nobody else has ever complained about the NW.js file size overhead, I also believe it to be of no practical importance to the vast majority of users.

Exporting to the web is a viable alternative with little overhead if your game is not for sale. If your game is for sale, e.g. on Steam, then customers in that market are accustomed to multi-gigabyte downloads so a 65mb download does not seem like a significant hurdle to commercial success. If the game is not directly for sale (e.g. a free hobby-made indie game), then web publishing seems to be a perfectly viable low-overhead alternative.

I'm with Solomon on this one. While for bigger games +60MB or +90MB is not such of bid deal, for simple Mario, Flappy Bird and other under 10MB games this is definitely a big downside. Let not even talk about +30MB for a Flappy Bird clone on Android <5.0 . And what is with the comparison with GTA V or Skyrim, are we comparing apples with potatoes ?

Solomon

Sorry to say it but as a customer is your duty to inform yourself about a product before buying (search, ask on forums, see some finished games ... etc).

Another example is: http://www.rpgmakerweb.com/products/pro ... g-maker-mv Long story -> short: It exports only HTML5 and/or NWjs but isn't specified, you have to dig a little to find about it.

The other way to get smaller games is to go native: Unity is arguably the best tool for indie developers, but you will need to learn coding, even if you use visual scripting like Playmaker. The same goes with Game Maker: Studio. The closest alternative to Construct 2 is Clickteam Fusion 2.5, but is more expensive and it also has it's fair amount of downsides like any other game engine.

No matter what you write here will change the fact that Construct 2 is HTML5 engine and Ashley made it clear that he will not go native like Construct Classic. So is like "Take it or leave it" or "Take what you can get".

On the bright side:

C2 is focusing only on HTML5 so you get the best performance compared to other games engines that have a HTML5 exporter. Is fast. you can develop games really fast in C2. You develop once and runs on anything that supports HTML5. While HTML5 is slower than native, is supported by big corporations. It works great on mobile browsers (iOS 8, WP8, WP10, Android 5.0) without wrapper. There is a market for HTML5 games.

You should ask yourself:

Do I need the extra 60MB and the extra performance the native offers at the cost of more time to develop a game, or I can go with it and develop the game faster ?

Even if you decide to go with another engine, you can continue using Construct 2 for smaller projects, or for quick sketching game concepts.

Ashley

Size definitely matters, especially on mobiles or in countries where the internet infrastructure is poor. And 245kb is definitely waaaay smaller than 60~90MB.

Also, since the nw.dll is the same in all projects, can't be installed once and used by all games that uses NWjs ? To me this looks like a much better approach than integrating it in every small game.

I agree with the fact that file size at the end matters little.

Personally, my only complaint with NW.js is the fact that at multiple times had issues like lag, fps drops and now debugger not working (bug report can be found in the bug report section done by another user).

Please correct me here if I'm wrong but since there's a store, maybe someone could make a new exporter for C2?. Personally I'm ready to pay for an exporter tailored for bigger pc games since the few issues with NW.js slow me down.

Personally, I feel its a shame for C2 to limit itself to just mobile devs (maybe I'm wrong).

Cheers!