0 Favourites

Taking a break from Construct ...

  • > UE4 blueprints are really easy to comprehend (after spending some years in C2 and CC). All you need to know is to learn a different workflow of the engine like GameMode, PlayerController, PlayerCharacter etc. It took me just about a week to learn how it works and to make a simple 3d adventure game system that have doors, rooms, transitions, player interactions, camera system... UE4 is stupid easy in comparison to Unity+Playmaker. To do exactly same thing in Unity with playmaker... i gave up after 2 weeks.

    >

    > Like megatronx said, there's a lot of neat stuff exposed in blueprint nodes: timelines, delays, custom events, literally hundreds of different types variables (I really don't like in C2 that I can't make an array variable or simple vector2 variable to store XY - instead you need to make 2 separate number variables sic!).

    > And everything have build in help infos and tooltips, so there's no need to dig through the help online.

    >

    > One thing that can be overwhelming is UE4 editor itselfs, there are a lot of buttons, options, parameters, options in options, parameters in parameters

    >

    Wow, so you think UE4 is easier to use than Unity+Playmaker? I should have a look at it then. I always figured it would be harder, so I never really looked at it.

    At least for me

    UE4 blueprint nodes speaks to me better and they are managed and maintain by people from UE4 who constantly makes them better and faster. They are although 10-12 times slower than pure C+ but I'm just learning and not doing another AAA game (which in most cases they should be called BDB games - Beta Dollars Bugs xD) so i don't mind.

    But i hope they will soon figure it out (which are doing all the time) how to remove VM from blueprints and then it will be the same speed as C+

    Not to discouraged or anything, you can still make games with it

  • That's interesting. I've gotten pretty good with C2, so anything that operates on a similar kind of terminology shouldn't be too hard for me to pick up.

    I've been following some tutorials on Playmaker and have done some quick tests, but I'm not committed yet. I want to choose to the engine that will get me the best results. I've already got a working prototype made in C2, though I may deviate slightly in how it controls (like 3rd person controls instead of point and click). But I haven't decided on any of that yet. Right now, I'm just playing with the engines to see if I feel like I could do it.

    Since UE4 is free, I may give it a download and try it out.

  • Good luck for you with your future projects.

    Also, I want to ask a question for those who used UE4 and Unity + Playmaker: Which one is more easy to get into and use: blueprints or Playmaker?

    Blueprints (UE4) are very great stuff! I will not say its easy to handle it, but blueprints are easyer then coding in my opinion and there are many great tutorials on youtube. The problem is: When a complex programm is very intuitive its often a harder start to understand the logic and the learncurve at the beginning is a bit hard for the most people and then they give up!

    The next is that you can't with the engines alone make all and must learned other complex programms too. I have learned using blender for 3d-Models, make Trees, animations with (face)rigging.... etc. It cost 0$! The beginning-Tutorials (buyed learn-dvd) have cost 16 hours + training for the ground-functions (from movment in 3d space to complex making animations) Everytime there are coming 1000s of stoppings in the workflow in a project with things that i have not plan (hair, roads, rain, fire, water). Its a long way with 100(0)s of hours to manage this. But i promise you: When you go this long way the feeling on work with the new 3d engines get better and better in the learning-time.

    But yeah, i think its the future! Before i started with this ihave learned with c2 many visual scirpting logic and planed making 2 or 3 games in 2d before i started with 3d-engines, but the bad ends comes with the exportfunctions from c2 after i have make graphics, music, design-scirpts.... now i will finished my last project with c2 and when the export-problem is not managed i will used in the future only UE4!

    The next is outsourcing: When you make a bigger 3d world you need a big groundbase of textures, sound (wind, rain, birds etc.) it cost many time to collect it in the net or you must spend money for dvd-packs. alone for searching and testing for "human-modelling" programs i have spend many weeks with different programs to found the best for me..... yeah long way but i think every people that are big motivated to make games & with normal IQ can handle it with the new generation of engines!

  • >

    > > UE4 blueprints are really easy to comprehend (after spending some years in C2 and CC). All you need to know is to learn a different workflow of the engine like GameMode, PlayerController, PlayerCharacter etc. It took me just about a week to learn how it works and to make a simple 3d adventure game system that have doors, rooms, transitions, player interactions, camera system... UE4 is stupid easy in comparison to Unity+Playmaker. To do exactly same thing in Unity with playmaker... i gave up after 2 weeks.

    > >

    > > Like megatronx said, there's a lot of neat stuff exposed in blueprint nodes: timelines, delays, custom events, literally hundreds of different types variables (I really don't like in C2 that I can't make an array variable or simple vector2 variable to store XY - instead you need to make 2 separate number variables sic!).

    > > And everything have build in help infos and tooltips, so there's no need to dig through the help online.

    > >

    > > One thing that can be overwhelming is UE4 editor itselfs, there are a lot of buttons, options, parameters, options in options, parameters in parameters

    > >

    >

    > Wow, so you think UE4 is easier to use than Unity+Playmaker? I should have a look at it then. I always figured it would be harder, so I never really looked at it.

    >

    At least for me

    UE4 blueprint nodes speaks to me better and they are managed and maintain by people from UE4 who constantly makes them better and faster. They are although 10-12 times slower than pure C+ but I'm just learning and not doing another AAA game (which in most cases they should be called BDB games - Beta Dollars Bugs xD) so i don't mind.

    But i hope they will soon figure it out (which are doing all the time) how to remove VM from blueprints and then it will be the same speed as C+

    Not to discouraged or anything, you can still make games with it

    Othink it's fast enough to make an indie games. Super tight action games are rather domain of bigger studios.

  • I didn't know Blueprint has such a high overhead, 10x slower than pure C+ is worse than javascript/html5 with a good JIT engine?

  • Thank you for the answers So it seems blueprints win over Playmaker.

  • Construct 3

    Buy Construct 3

    Develop games in your browser. Powerful, performant & highly capable.

    Buy Now Construct 3 users don't see these ads
  • I've been having similar reservations about c2... The only thing stopping me from jumping to UE4 was the lack of integrated bones animation for 2d. But yesterday I found a programme called Creature which is amazing that I must check out. Way better than Spriter....

    I read on Unreal forums that Unity is much faster at animated sprite rendering than UE4 with Blueprints, so UE4 is not perfect... but the limits are way out there. Stuttering simple 2d platform performance in Umbra is depressing, with reasonable performance limited to high end machines, so I feel your pain and have been looking at other options for a while as well. I think I'll finish my current game experiment then I'm done here too. I'll be back to check out c3, so I reserve judgement there. Good luck!

  • I didn't know Blueprint has such a high overhead, 10x slower than pure C+ is worse than javascript/html5 with a good JIT engine?

    Yeah. Blueprints are running through Virtual Machine - every single node basically. So the ideal solution is to make all complex nodes into one node (you get 1 call instead of 20 for example). But good news are they are already researching a method to bypass and remove the VM completely, we just need to wait... like we always do with every engine

    There was a nice Twitch stream called "Blueprint Optimization" if I remember correctly, where they spoke about how it works, what to do, what to avoid etc.

  • I would treat blue prints similar to how I would treat the EventSheet in C2. Use the BP as the model of interacting with different objects, not to use BP as new features. If the program needs some heavy duty processing get a Plugin or write the feature in C++. Try to keep BP as logic triggers and not heavy data processing.

    I'm sharing the same sentiment as others. I love C2, but for me the workflow tools are falling behind standards. And often I can't "sell" C2 as a viable project tool because of solitary design concept that runs C2(I know C2 works with CVS, but no where near the level Unity, Unreal, Havok...) and exports.

    I still prototype in C2 and make games in C2, but anything more complex than the basics is done elsewhere. And I agree with Shinkan here. Unreal has a heavier IDE to learn, but once you do it is the most similar to C2(abstractly). Except you get a SceneGraph hierarchy of objects and that makes a world of difference.

  • Interesting discussion.

    Wouldn't it be amazing if one could have a 3D Construct? I like Constructs's events system and being able to use that power in 3D.

    I know it wont happen but it will be something brand new. never been done as far as i am aware.

    3D games...well i come from making Flash Educational games then moved over to some 3D visualization games in Garagegames Torque 3D but we had a small team. So i was mainly level / Environment designer and others coded.

    My main job now is Drupal and Sharepoint work so non interactive gaming but always thought to get back into 3D.

    Thing is it's tough as well. 3D is not as easy as 2D to make WELL. If you don't make 3D well it looks amateur. An amateur 2D game can have some style or some sort of feel to it that cannot be captured in 3D.

    However, with VR and AR i see a big boost in the gaming arena with 3D games and VR tech. Nielsen marketing i think it was, said that it will be a $ 150 billion industry by 2020.

    I will download Unreal Engine 4 and try this Blueprints you guys talk of. last I checked anything about Unreal Engines was with UDK.

    In my opinion though, if you want to make 2D games fast for desktop and web, Construct 2 is where it's at currently.

    Stencyl is cool with performance vs C2 but not there in terms of efficiency and power I think.

  • Just to add to my previous posts.

    Found out a card on UE4 trello called "Blueprint -> C++ conversion tool" - Optimize runtime performance for packaged games, by providing users an optional cook step for converting Blueprint assets into C++ classes.

    This is spread over September, October and November. So probably this year Blueprints will get a lot faster

  • You really don't need to worry about Blueprint performance, its impact on overall performance is minimal. You'd have to do something pretty extreme for Blueprint performance even to be a factor.

    Optimizing this by converting to C++ will be cool, but hardly necessary.

    You cannot compare this to the speed of JavaScript in C2 either, since in C2 the entire engine is written in JavaScript so it has a much bigger impact.

    The main reason to use C++ with Blueprints is better flexibility. You can make complete games in Blueprint, but it will always be limited compared to what you can do with C++.

    There is no point discussing which is better though, ideally you know what you need for your game and then pick the right tool for the job. Unreal Engine is much heavier and that makes it less suitable for certain game projects. I would pick Construct over Unreal for 2D prototyping and for 2D games which should be as accessible as possible (e.g. web based and light weight).

    HTML5 games have a very interesting future and while Unreal and Unity can convert to it, Construct uses it natively. That does make it a lot easier for example to integrate with other web based frameworks.

    I also appreciate that Construct loads up super fast on any laptop, which makes it ideal for prototyping or working on smaller games on the go.

    There is no one tool to rule them all, and I don't think there will ever be. The important thing is to be aware of the strengths and weaknesses and take the most possible advantage of it. That's why I find it pointless to ask for 3D or native exports in Construct, just like it would be pointless to ask for Unreal to be significantly simpler.

  • Well said Zenity

    As far as I see it, 2D game, C2 is un-rivaled.

    3D is a toss up, UE4 is more professional and considered as such while Unity has a reputation for being more indie friendly, as in, when you become really skilled with C+, UE4 will allow you to achieve much better visuals easier.

    Here's a nice thread on Reddit's Gamedev sub about Unity vs UE4 pros and cons.

  • I guess that win-win situation would be if C2 or C3 would be converted into an Unity's plugin for gamemeking.

  • 3D is a toss up, UE4 is more professional and considered as such while Unity has a reputation for being more indie friendly, as in, when you become really skilled with C+, UE4 will allow you to achieve much better visuals easier.

    My take on that (although my Unity experience is limited) is that UE4 has a lot of features which make life easier (Blueprints being one of them, but also the fantastic integrated networking support, and a lot more), but due to its sheer size and complexity it is much harder to get a grip on everything that you need to know as a solo developer or small team. So Unity is a bit more tailored towards those, while UE4 has its strengths with somewhat larger teams with specialised developers.

    If your goal is to make a complete game by yourself, then Unity will probably get you there faster (not as fast as Construct 2). If your goal is to become a competent game developer with a specific focus, UE4 is probably the most promising tool to learn right now.

    I wouldn't focus much on what kind of visuals the engines can achieve though. Indies cannot compete on graphical prowess alone, so being able to implement your vision efficiently and quickly is far more important. This is a bonus for UE4 mainly because it makes the engine feasible for AAA games, which means that your skills will be highly relevant if you seek employment in this sector.

Jump to:
Active Users
There are 1 visitors browsing this topic (0 users and 1 guests)