Best way to create large layouts?

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  • Hey there! ^_^

    3 questions that i have now in prpearing for a new game making!

    1. Can layouts be at the size of 5000 ? Does it make the game lag? I just find it easier to do them in this size instead of splitting it into 3 and making a layer transition between them.

    2. For a 5000 sized layout, is having 1 background in the same size better or say 5 cut ones reused?

    The tutorial says is better to use more/smaller sizes than a big one.

    3. How many objects on screen can an average PC handle?

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  • Just look at the image size and image memory used in the layout. It's not advisable to use a huge background and by that I mean the source image, not the size of the sprite object. But if 5 backgrounds have the same memory usage as the 1 background then there's no difference. But I've only developed for mobile where it matters greatly for performance so maybe for PC it's not the biggest problem.

  • 1. Layout size itself doesn't matter, you can have 1000000px layout. The objects that you put on the layout are important.

    2. It's much better to have one 500x500 px background sprite repeated a hundred times, than one 2000x2000 px sprite. That's why it's recommended to use TiledBackground for backgrounds.

    3. It depends on too many factors. You should regularly check performance as you develop your game, and if you notice a big performance drop, fix it.

  • 1. Layout size itself doesn't matter, you can have 1000000px layout. The objects that you put on the layout are important.

    2. It's much better to have one 500x500 px background sprite repeated a hundred times, than one 2000x2000 px sprite. That's why it's recommended to use TiledBackground for backgrounds.

    3. It depends on too many factors. You should regularly check performance as you develop your game, and if you notice a big performance drop, fix it.

    Hey again! Thanks for that feedback!

    1. That was an important factor you said there! I thought the layout size is what matters! But now i know.

    2. So having lets say 4000 size layout, i have 1 background for this hand drawn. Would it be better to cut it into pieces and place it out like a puzzle? Or just use it as a whole? Can i cut it into 1000 pix each and place them next to each others??

    3. I have an endless inventory bag space. I know no method to cut down the performance on inventory storage in C3, im not sure if C3 is weak in this aspect or if every developer on big games struggle with this, because looking on castlevania SOTN for example is a game over 20 years old that can have as many items as needed. How did they do that back then? C3 cant be weaker than a game made 20+ years ago.

  • Would it be better to cut it into pieces and place it out like a puzzle? Or just use it as a whole? Can i cut it into 1000 pix each and place them next to each others??

    No, all these are equally bad ideas. What I meant is - try using a repeating background when possible. Instead of 4000px image of the sky with clouds and birds, use 200px TiledBackground with the sky, and small separate sprites for clouds and birds.

    Check out this Ashley's article:

    construct.net/en/blogs/construct-official-blog-1/remember-not-waste-memory-796

  • > Would it be better to cut it into pieces and place it out like a puzzle? Or just use it as a whole? Can i cut it into 1000 pix each and place them next to each others??

    No, all these are equally bad ideas. What I meant is - try using a repeating background when possible. Instead of 4000px image of the sky with clouds and birds, use 200px TiledBackground with the sky, and small separate sprites for clouds and birds.

    Check out this Ashley's article:

    https://www.construct.net/en/blogs/construct-official-blog-1/remember-not-waste-memory-796

    Hey man! I see, i have hand drawn graphics where every background is different, so this doesnt apply to me i guess. What is the best to do in my situation? Every bit and background is hand drawn differently.

  • Well, if you absolutely need to use 4000px image for the background, you can of course do it. I think the maximum supported size is 4096x4096. If your image doesn't exceed it, you don't need to cut it into smaller pieces, there will be no notable difference in performance or memory usage.

    Just be aware that each of these 4000x4000 images will take about 100Mb of memory.

  • Well, if you absolutely need to use 4000px image for the background, you can of course do it. I think the maximum supported size is 4096x4096. If your image doesn't exceed it, you don't need to cut it into smaller pieces, there will be no notable difference in performance or memory usage.

    Just be aware that each of these 4000x4000 images will take about 100Mb of memory.

    I dont know man, the tutorial says that this also applies for professionaly made games. I cant figure out how games such as ori and the will of the wisps does it, those layers has much bigger background sizes :/

    What would the trick be there?

  • Games like Ori don't actually have massive backgrounds. They just cleverly layer things. If you look closely, you will notice that it's the same stuff used over and over again, but maybe rotated/scaled differently. They use a lot of little tricks to make it seem fresh. You're thinking like a traditional artist, in that a background is a large static object. You need to think like a game designer in that a background can be made up from many smaller objects that can be repeated/tweaked. This is better for both memory, and allows you more flexibility in making your background more dynamic.

  • a great deal of work!

    the wikipedia article for Ori says that they had a team of 80 people, and it took 4 years to develop, so that is 320 man years of development. Very skilled and experienced programmers, artists, musicians, level designers, writers, etc...

    and a lot of testing, and using every tick imaginable to make it work!

  • Games like Ori don't actually have massive backgrounds. They just cleverly layer things. If you look closely, you will notice that it's the same stuff used over and over again, but maybe rotated/scaled differently. They use a lot of little tricks to make it seem fresh. You're thinking like a traditional artist, in that a background is a large static object. You need to think like a game designer in that a background can be made up from many smaller objects that can be repeated/tweaked. This is better for both memory, and allows you more flexibility in making your background more dynamic.

    Not at all, i get that part, but thats for the placed out objects such as flowers, trees and bushes etc. However their backgrounds are huge art placed behind all (blue background) - and some huge cavish walls newgamenetwork.com/images/uploads/gallery/OriWisps/oriwisps_07.jpg

  • It depends on what your game actually is. It is obviously better to use smaller sprites and repeat them, but sometimes this is just not possible, for example if you have a baseball game and you need to see most of the stadium. You basically have no choice but to have one big stadium background, and then layer smaller sprites on top of that.

    I try to keep these down to 1920 x 1080 and it works fine.

    If you need larger backgrounds you may want to try a single 1920 x 1080, then place 2 instances in your layout, next to each other, and flip one horizontally making sure there is no seam where they meet ( this works well with nature scenery, but may not work with other stuff ). This would give you a background of 3840 x 1080 while still using a single 1920 x 1080 image

    Then you can add other sprites on top of that to give it some variation.

    But, like I said it all depends on what the game is. There may be a better way, there may be no way around it.

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