Will Scirra C3 exporter have improved performance over XDK?

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    > > Any issues you run into with XDK will likely exist with any other web-based exporter, because you don't have control over it, and if you're doing anything it's not expecting the build will fail. The idea that Scirra will be able to provide better maintenance than Intel? What makes you even think that's possible, given the resources of each company?

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    > > If you want the option to optimize your builds as much as possible, you're better off installing node.js, cordova, java & GIT on your local machine and compiling locally, which takes much less time and doesn't require uploading your assets to a 3rd-party server (that may potentially be unreliable), which is going to be configured to support a more generalized build as opposed to something specifically for your game projects. Reliability aside, if you're working on a bigger project, uploading over even a fast connection adds a lot to the build time - whether you're using Cocoon, XDK or Phonegap.

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    > > Once set up locally, Cordova isn't difficult to use, and just requires a few command-line options or your setting up a batch (.bat) file when you want to compile. If you're interested in doing this, install in this order: java, GIT, node.js, then Cordova. Installing Cordova last allows it to set up the connections to the other components automatically and no manual configuration will be necessary. Plugins can be installed from the command line/powershell, and I'm sure there's a GUI-based installer for them as well if you're more comfortable with that after setup.

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    > I just don't believe it's possible to achieve the same performance as Canvas+ does with any exporter/wrapper, none of them seem to disassemble the inner workings and recompile as well, or whatever the hell it does. Would self compiling with a batch file improve performance? And by performance, I obviously mean fps. I don't believe optimising code could improve matters to the point where xdk or a batch file build would ever reach the smooth, fluid gameplay cocoon is providing, but it should.

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    > No, doing the build online or offline is just the same... The performance won't change.

    > The performance is only influenced by your code, the engine, the device, and the wrapper.

    > Changing build options won't change anything but changing wrappers is another story...

    > Changing from IntelXDK to Cocoon.IO or vice versa would change performance.

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    > But finding the best performance wrapper is up to you.

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    No, the performance won't change if the exporters you're trying are all based on PhoneGap/Cordova, that's correct. I was referring to the speed of the build process, not the application that results from it. And as Ashley mentioned Canvas+ is a total mess, and non-standard, and performance isn't predictable across hardware because it's non-standard. There's little to "optimize" in terms of the build that's exported that's exporter-specific, other than Canvas+ they're all using pretty much the same backend to build. Canvas+ isn't really doing anything all that much different in terms of the game's overall codebase so if you're seeing drastically better performance using it over WebGL/Cordova export, you're probably doing something wrong. It's not doing what you think it does.

    Well I've had perfect performance with canvas+ and unacceptable performance with xdk and phonegap, so what could I be doing wrong to gain such a boost in performance?

  • The workarounds are due to the way XDK/Cocoon/etc. builds, not due to how Cordova builds. No workaround are necessary if you export to Cordova (no need to use the workarounds required for XDK) and compile locally.

    It takes around 10 minutes to install the programs I listed. All of them have publicly accessible documentation. If you're too lazy to figure it out - and there's little to figure out, because the entire build process can be documented on a single page, and executed with the 2 or 3 listed commands, and you only have to dig in deeper if you want to customize builds - that's on you.

    Sounds interesting...if I understand correctly, by running the build that way you'll obtain anyway an HTML wrapped apk, as for per XDK etc, but more reliable and solid (NOT more performing), without plugins problems etc and in less time, due to "direct" delivery of C2/C3 code to Cordova. Correct?

    Sorry for the trivial question (I'm not a technician, as you can see...)

  • Canvas+ isn't really doing anything all that much different in terms of the game's overall codebase so if you're seeing drastically better performance using it over WebGL/Cordova export, you're probably doing something wrong. It's not doing what you think it does.

    Okay, I have a project with a few plugins but none of them cause any fps problems. It compiles fast and furious on Canvas+. How would you recommend I achieve the same fps with xdk or a custom build.bat?

  • A while ago when I tried Cocoon.io/Canvas+ it offered better performance then Intel XDK and PhoneGap.

  • A while ago when I tried Cocoon.io/Canvas+ it offered better performance then Intel XDK and PhoneGap.

    Immeasurably, in my experience. From about 20fps or something to 60. Same zip file uploaded to both.

  • You guys are right Canvas+ is the fastest webview engine, Corodva does recommend it for making webgl games.

  • You guys are right Canvas+ is the fastest webview engine, Corodva does recommend it for making webgl games.

    See, this is the problem.

  • Where did the Cordova project say that? I didn't think they'd recommend a competing company's proprietary technology...

    If there is really that big a difference (20fps vs. 60fps) are you sure you're not on a GPU-blacklisted system or getting dropped back to canvas2d rendering? That's exactly the performance difference you'd see if that was happening. In which case really you're testing hardware-accelerated vs. software rendering, which is an unfair comparison.

  • Where did the Cordova project say that? I didn't think they'd recommend a competing company's proprietary technology...

    If there is really that big a difference (20fps vs. 60fps) are you sure you're not on a GPU-blacklisted system or getting dropped back to canvas2d rendering? That's exactly the performance difference you'd see if that was happening. In which case really you're testing hardware-accelerated vs. software rendering, which is an unfair comparison.

    I meant cocoon :

    [quote:2c1oyr9x]Advantages

    High performance: It is the fastest webview engine.

    Light weight: Only 5MB of space.

    Compatibility with old OS versions.

    Portability: Android, iOS, Wearables…

    Specially thought and designed for Gaming.

    Ultra-fast bindings: box2d, gamepad…

    Disadvantages

    DOM access is restricted.

    It is not a full browser.

    Less suitable for apps than the other webview engines.

    When to use it

    If you are developing canvas based game that requires mainly high performance and high FPS rate.

    If your game does not require DOM UI elements and you want it to be easily portable to other OS versions and light.

    If you are using a canvas based game engine, such as Phaser, Pixi, PlayCanvas, Kiwi.js …

  • Okay, but that's very different to the Cordova project saying that

    As I said before, slower and working is better than fast and broken.

    Also, I strongly suspect the performance is simply GPU blacklisting, in which case the performance difference is likely far smaller.

  • Cocoon+ is faster based on my experience, but you really need to thoroughly test it, there are some features that needs to be avoided since they dont work. Cant wait for C3 to out perform intelxdk lol.

  • I really hope that scirras own service to build apps in C3 is alot better than phonegap.

    Just tested phonegap with a tiny test game and the performance is embarrassing.

    edit:

    Maybe I did something wrong? I exported the project with minimum android version set to 5.0(Webview), the apk was just 1mb but the performance was horrible. Now I exported with the android setting set to 4.4(kitkat), the apk was 25mb but performance was quite acceptable.

    Does someone know something about this?

  • It will be valuable if the IDE supports Crosswalk Lite wrapping:

    https://crosswalk-project.org/documenta ... _lite.html

  • I really hope that scirras own service to build apps in C3 is alot better than phonegap.

    Just tested phonegap with a tiny test game and the performance is embarrassing.

    Again, I will keep repeating this, you have to check for GPU blacklisting as the very first step. Visit chrome://gpu in Chrome on the device to check. This only affects about ~5% of devices.

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  • > I really hope that scirras own service to build apps in C3 is alot better than phonegap.

    > Just tested phonegap with a tiny test game and the performance is embarrassing.

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    Again, I will keep repeating this, you have to check for GPU blacklisting as the very first step. Visit chrome://gpu in Chrome on the device to check. This only affects about ~5% of devices.

    I have:

    Multiple Raster Threads: Disabled

    Native GpuMemoryBuffers: Software Only. Hardware acceleration disabled.

    Video encode: Software Only. Hardware acceleration disabled.

    WebGL2: Unavailable.

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