Construct 2 - Realistic State after 1 gazilion downloads

  • Founded on Reddit:

    "I personally love MMF2 but unfortunately ran into heavy performance snags whenever I exported to Android. Things that just simply shouldn't happen like having more than 10 objects move at one time causing frame stutter. I was spending more time debugging and working around its limitations than producing so I had to switch. Still I highly recommend it for prototyping and or PC development."

    "Thanks! One or two of Construct creators used to be pretty involved with MMF2, and I guess they had enough of the limitations and bugs and did something about it. They're both very similar in terms of event scripting though, and both have their ups and downs."

    "That would be Ashley Cullen, or Tigerworks as he was known back then. He had an RTS game made in MMF2 (Terminal Orbit) in the works for a few years, but it was never released. I remember he started developing plugins to help in the creation of it, which I guess is what led him to start Construct."

    http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=89

    I was referring to MMF3 not 2, which is apparently a complete rewrite. My statement was also based on a presumption that the software is as good as it sounds, whether Clickteam have actually learned from their past mistakes is yet to be seem, but there is a lot of new blood working for them now so who knows. I do get the feeling though that Ashley has more of an imagination and understands better the needs of a game developer in terms of editor features etc.

  • Hate to sound like an ass as always seems to happen, but I notice these threads usually wind up revealing the need for better game logic.

    Perhaps whats needed is some sort of program that teaches how to do events properly. Something complete with site badges and all.

    I like how sound it...

    Anyway I think really that a lot of nice performance and pulish is due the good job you code with C2... I love C2 and how works, but I think the editor is able to improve with integrate tutor or help when you are coding...

  • Hate to sound like an ass as always seems to happen, but I notice these threads usually wind up revealing the need for better game logic.

    Perhaps whats needed is some sort of program that teaches how to do events properly. Something complete with site badges and all.

    I think this is a great idea, it could help everyone, begginer and also more advanced people

    I second this

    also I have read "open" instead of "happen" the first time, that sounded weird

  • [quote:2pwht6i7]Perhaps whats needed is some sort of program that teaches how to do events properly

    This is a great idea...as long as you could turn it off if you wanted.

    It seems like the core concept of construct is to have an easier learning curve, and a more streamlined workflow. Having some built in context sensitive feedback would be a great way to teach new users good practices.

    And, it would be great for more seasoned user working on larger games, where it's easy to miss something redundant among hundreds or even thousands of events.

    AND, since C2 is making a point of targeting schools and educational institutions as well, this would help take some of the load off of teachers by empowering students to solve simpler problems by themselves.

    Basically, it would help everyone.

    Maybe start with some simple 'gothcha's', like

    'Hey, you know you tested the same two objects for collision in this other event, right?'

    'You have the same loop over here, redundant loops can really slow things down'

    'You are filtering your instances before testing for collisions; this forces brute force collisions and will result in worse performance in most cases.'

    I could see how this could be annoying if done wrong, but generally striking a balance between ease-of-use and depth-of-control seems to be a strong point for Ashley.

    P.S.

    What would REALLY make this feature awesome is if you could generate a project-wide report with potential glitches, errors, and warnings.

    Maybe Ashley can add it to his todo list. Which reminds me: how many file cabinets does that thing take up now?

  • Ashley

    I agree with lwgames about all the 'future' talk being rather unpleasant. It's not that I disagree about the 'future', but people are buying C2 now with certain promises about what they can do now on your page, which turn into expectations about what they can do now, and many of them are trying to do this professionally. Notice how many times the word 'now' appears in the sentence above. The fact that your response is "Just wait until some indeterminate time in the future until some third parties fix the problems you are having" is not very reassuring. I think acting as if the people don't understand the complexity in making your own exporter or the limitation involved is both condescending and dodging the real problem which is that in the first place it is you guys who are creating these complain threads by leading people to believe that C2 can produce monetizable mobile games reliably NOW and not at some indeterminate time in the future when Intel and ludei get around to it, possibly maybe. Forget the performance, there are key features not working now on mobile, often times the entire game. The fact that people paid you money for those features and your response is "maybe intel will fix it" is probably not what they had in mind. Certainly they weren't expecting to pay you so they can beta-test your product.

    Anyway I guess given your response the only sane thing to do is finish my simple 'test' game - that is, if intel and chrome mobile ever get around to fixing simple sound issues that they themselves probably don't have high on a priority list - and take the advice of some of the forum regulars and go play with unity and check back in a few years and see if Crosswalk is a more complete product. Posting about these issues seems to be an exercise in futility since it's inevitably turned to "omg fill rate of mobile devices is low" or something like that ignoring the many problems that have nothing to do with it.

  • Having your main programmer spending his days writing 'help files' isn't the most efficient use of his skills, or time.

  • This ‘help’ thing will work as long as it doesn't take the form of a winking paperclip....

    I had a massive diatribe written earlier but it got deleted by the editor (aarrgghh!!). Here’s the short version of my thoughts, it won’t surprise many….

    - I bought C2 because I wanted to make android and iOS games; that’s what it said on the tin…

    - Huge disappointment at discovering that mobile export is really an apparently continuous beta program – cocoonjs, phonegap, intel xdk (now agi?), and now crosswalk (no iOS – really? Pity...).

    - But C2 editor is light years ahead of the competition. I mean, it is really very good. I can still make games (for browser / node) and the process is pleasurable. I have mostly recovered from the poor mobile performance/export problem because the editor is so good.

    I think all of the optimization comments are valid but only to a point. I recall using Corona SDK not even a year ago to make a trial android apk to run on my trusty old Samsung S2 with dozens of physics balls all bouncing around at 60 fps on a complex ground shape while using the accelerometer to 'tilt' gravity – with no collision stuttering (I think it began to slow at well over 100 objects, but that might be my memory selecting a rose tint); that is something that is just not possible using C2 – I would like to be proven wrong and I defy anyone to produce a demo to counter this observation. Code optimization can improve a 'first stab' or beginner event sheet for sure, but the relative slowness of JavaScript when ported to mobiles is, IMO, a fact that I feel is being denied only to quiet those who criticize C2’s mobile performance. This video is a year old but it makes the point about C2’s JavaScript performance when wrapped using (old, admittedly) cocoonjs:

    Subscribe to Construct videos now

    . How awful was that old cocoonjs splash? But at least it didn’t flicker…

    I feel kind of sorry for Ashley - unappreciated by some as a one man coding guru and he's probably wearing his fingers out making an awesome browser based game engine. The lack of mobile support made me a little unhappy at first but I've gotten over that now and I recognize that what we get in terms of browser game development massively offsets the mobile limitations. And all of this for one payment - no annual rental plan required!! That doesn’t seem to get much of a mention but it carries a lot of weight for me because at the end of the day I’m still an amateur and my rate of productivity cannot justify an annual subscription.

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  • Well it may not be relevant in this thread but Mobiles and the like have killed gaming anyway. I havent seen anything on a mobile that impresses me, even Angry birds is way better on a PC with a mouse. As for the crappy turd clones, well its laughable. I am obviously from a differnt age

  • spongehammer - LOL - couldn't agree more!

  • Well it may not be relevant in this thread but Mobiles and the like have killed gaming anyway. I havent seen anything on a mobile that impresses me, even Angry birds is way better on a PC with a mouse. As for the crappy turd clones, well its laughable. I am obviously from a differnt age

    Fell the same... Can't stop laughing watching my friend sliding and punching mobile screens trying to "play". Besides that playing mobile games is like playing FPS with gamepads

  • Well it may not be relevant in this thread but Mobiles and the like have killed gaming anyway. I havent seen anything on a mobile that impresses me, even Angry birds is way better on a PC with a mouse. As for the crappy turd clones, well its laughable. I am obviously from a differnt age

    Depending on your genre of choice I can point you to a few really good games. If you like platformers, give Rico a shot. The platforming challenges in it, especially if you try to collect all of the coins, are very rewarding.

    If you like CRPGs, Spiderweb Software has put some of their games on android and ios, try Avadon, Avadon 2, and Avernum remake. All of them are great gameplay, though the graphics are very basic.

    Recently I played Waking Mars, a great metroidvania-style game where instead of killing things you ... plant alien plants. Very well done game.

    There are a ton of amazing mobile games out, even though many have PC counterparts, often it's more fun and relaxing to play on a tablet laying down on a couch.

  • I originally bought C2 to make interactive animations for www and small www games. it's the perfect tool for that.

    after 2 years, it's now in a good state where you can convert your html game to make it a desktop exe. i don't like the useless overhead in exe size and the fact that you cannot load/unload assets with C2 commands, but it kind of works.

    however for anything beyond whack a mole, for mobile, native code is still the best option for now. i keep checking every few months for any progress in 3rd party technology, but we are still a few years away from having good html5 wrappers that can cater for games with some action

  • Ashley

    I agree with lwgames about all the 'future' talk being rather unpleasant. It's not that I disagree about the 'future', but people are buying C2 now with certain promises about what they can do now on your page, which turn into expectations about what they can do now, and many of them are trying to do this professionally. Notice how many times the word 'now' appears in the sentence above. The fact that your response is "Just wait until some indeterminate time in the future until some third parties fix the problems you are having" is not very reassuring. I think acting as if the people don't understand the complexity in making your own exporter or the limitation involved is both condescending and dodging the real problem which is that in the first place it is you guys who are creating these complain threads by leading people to believe that C2 can produce monetizable mobile games reliably NOW and not at some indeterminate time in the future when Intel and ludei get around to it, possibly maybe. Forget the performance, there are key features not working now on mobile, often times the entire game. The fact that people paid you money for those features and your response is "maybe intel will fix it" is probably not what they had in mind. Certainly they weren't expecting to pay you so they can beta-test your product.

    Anyway I guess given your response the only sane thing to do is finish my simple 'test' game - that is, if intel and chrome mobile ever get around to fixing simple sound issues that they themselves probably don't have high on a priority list - and take the advice of some of the forum regulars and go play with unity and check back in a few years and see if Crosswalk is a more complete product. Posting about these issues seems to be an exercise in futility since it's inevitably turned to "omg fill rate of mobile devices is low" or something like that ignoring the many problems that have nothing to do with it.

    +1 to this but with a little more delicate approach, i don't like swag answers by scirra :/

  • I feel kind of sorry for Ashley - unappreciated by some as a one man coding guru

    Colludium - I certainly hope I didn't sound that way. I crazy appreciate all the hard work he puts into C2 - as I mentioned before, if it weren't for construct, I wouldn't be making games at all.

    Though I can't speak for everyone, I think generally others feel similarly that they appreciate the effort put into C2, but just have some complaints about the present state of some things which are outside of Ashley's control due to the route he's chosen. I don't think expressing discontent with valid flaws automatically means people aren't appreciating the work put in.

  • > I feel kind of sorry for Ashley - unappreciated by some as a one man coding guru

    >

    Colludium - I certainly hope I didn't sound that way. I crazy appreciate all the hard work he puts into C2 - as I mentioned before, if it weren't for construct, I wouldn't be making games at all.

    Though I can't speak for everyone, I think generally others feel similarly that they appreciate the effort put into C2, but just have some complaints about the present state of some things which are outside of Ashley's control due to the route he's chosen. I don't think expressing discontent with valid flaws automatically means people aren't appreciating the work put in.

    +1 to this one too..

    for me it's like a movie witch had reaaaaly good possibilities to be good, I was excited with the start and the concept but failed in the end (no construct hasn't ended yet, it's a mediocre metaphor) , that's why i feel like that,

    if it was a general bad product/service we wouldn't refresh the forums like this

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