Should I use Construct 2?

  • Node-Webkit should perform identically to Chrome.

    You could always download our demo at http://www.airscapegame.com to see the performance of a platformer using node-webkit export for yourself.

    The game worked great in the first couple of levels for me, but then i started to get frame drop and while that's okay, since it is pre-release.

    The performance might be sufficient for average pc's today, but should that really be necessary? I'm almost certain that the CC exporter, still performs better than node-webkit. That is one of my reasons why i still hope to see native exporters for windows, mac and linux someday

  • The Iconoclasts has been in development for over twice as long as Construct 2 itself has, so of course there isn't anything like it right now. Also, not all C2 games can be found here on the forums...

    As for other engines...from my experience GM:S is buggy as hell and has tons of conflicting documentation, Fusion 2.5 is actually more powerful than C2 in many regards but is absolutely riddled with poor design choices, and, well, Unity is in another league, really.

  • Html5 isn't really limiting in terms of making a large game. I've been working on two large RPGs and c2 handles then just fine (other people have been working on large games too, like C7 with Courier). Now that we have crosswalk and Ejecta for android and iOS exporting, both of those have memory management so you can make large games for mobile too.

    Html5 does have some downsides, but they aren't enough to really keep away from C2 except in some very specific cases, like needing every drop of power an older mobile device has. It also has some advantages, too.

    Html5's main problems that I've experienced:

    • Game logic speed isn't as fast as native, but it's still pretty fast. On PC it is very unlikely you'll hit any problems, however on older mobile devices like iPhone 4s and earlier it's quite likely you'll run into them (iOS is worse than android in this regard because of not allowing apps to use jit). C2 on PC has been able to handle almost everything I've wanted to make with it at 1080p/60 fps, and that's on a computer that's most of a decade old. That of my ideas which it isn't able to handle at 1080p60 it almost does (at about 30-45 fps) and would run fine on a more recent computer. All game dev tools have limits though.
    • the node webkit export is basically chrome, and the chrome team decided to drop all support for hardware acceleration for XP and vista. This is seriously annoying, but can be worked around by starting the game from a shortcut with a flag to disable the gpu blacklist. Doing so works fine on my vista computer. It's likely that the person you mentioned who tried to make a tower defense game was getting software rendering or was doing something wildly wrong with their events, because c2 can definitely handle a tower defense game with way more than a few enemies.

    Really, when it comes down to it, c2 can make pretty much any game you can imagine as long as it's 2d and within reason, of course (hardware has limits even if you were coding in assembly, after all). All the main big name tools can make great games and the main consideration for what tool to use should be what works best with your own workflow. I don't like MMF or game maker, but I respect the opinions of the people who do (for what it's worth, the person making the game you cited, the iconoclasts, left MMF for CC. I know he's had problems with CC - and I did too - but c2 has rectified those issues).

    Try 'em out, see what you like, but be sure to give them a fair shake to make sure you don't get a false impression (for example, the performance of any game made with any dev environment, even in assembly language, can be crippled with a few incorrect lines of code).

  • Node-Webkit should perform identically to Chrome.

    You could always download our demo at http://www.airscapegame.com to see the performance of a platformer using node-webkit export for yourself.

    So I just played the first six levels from this demo. That was some of the choppiest audio issues I've ever experienced with a game that wasn't run on an emulator and I frequently dealt with massive slowdowns for short periods of time. These are my specs.

    Operating System

    MS Windows 7 64-bit SP1

    CPU

    AMD Phenom II X2 550

    Callisto 45nm Technology

    RAM

    4.00 GB Dual-Channel DDR2 401MHz (5-5-5-15)

    Motherboard

    Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. GA-MA790X-UD4P (Socket M2)

    Graphics

    W2361 (1920x1080@60Hz)

    512MB GeForce GTS 250 (EVGA)

    Hard Drives

    977GB SAMSUNG SAMSUNG HD103UJ ATA Device (SATA)

    Optical Drives

    TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223L ATA Device

    Audio

    ASUS Xonar DS Audio Device

    I should not be having these type of problems with my machine for that type of game. Now I'm even more concerned about Construct 2's performance issues than I was before. I was learning toward using Construct 2, but now I'm not so sure because of how your game ran for me. Like your game's performance was so annoying that I'll never consider buying it unless those issues are resolved which is a shame because you have a really cool game.

  • OK, thanks for the feedback!

    I haven't been able to test on a wide variety of machines so it's good to hear if it's having problems.

    Choppy audio you say? Interesting. I wonder if that's caused by the performance in general, or is its own issue.

    Did reducing the resolution help at all? That would at least narrow down if it's a CPU issue or something else.

    My machine seems to be similar (but without a dedicated GPU) and it runs perfectly.

  • OK, thanks for the feedback!

    I haven't been able to test on a wide variety of machines so it's good to hear if it's having problems.

    Choppy audio you say? Interesting. I wonder if that's caused by the performance in general, or is its own issue.

    Did reducing the resolution help at all? That would at least narrow down if it's a CPU issue or something else.

    My machine seems to be similar (but without a dedicated GPU) and it runs perfectly.

    I initially played the game at the highest settings, but I just tested it in 480p and I still experience very choppy audio along with random moments of slowdown.

  • OK, so that's not a graphics issue then. Hmm, interesting! Must be a CPU or RAM problem... and one of the downsides of C2 is that it's not very easy to tell! I'm puzzled that this only happens on your machine though - it must happen on at least some others...

    Since the engine is young, I'm bound to run into issues like this making a large game, since the limits of the engine haven't been run into that much over its lifetime. Definitely consider that when making your decision, but also keep in mind that Scirra are very helpful and it could be much better a year or two from now.

  • For comparisons sake I ran the game smooth as butter on a 5 year old laptop with poor ventilation and a 13 tab Chrome browser plus various programs open in the background (Photoshop, Word, PowerPoint etc.) and the audio was fine, as was the frame rate.

    The only issues I had:

    The game froze twice, once for about a second and a second time for 4 seconds, after which I stopped playing and noticed the temperature was at egg-frying levels.

    Plugging in my (admittedly 3rd party) 360 pad part way through the game didn't work, although restarting the program worked fine!

  • OK, so that's not a graphics issue then. Hmm, interesting! Must be a CPU or RAM problem... and one of the downsides of C2 is that it's not very easy to tell! I'm puzzled that this only happens on your machine though - it must happen on at least some others...

    Since the engine is young, I'm bound to run into issues like this making a large game, since the limits of the engine haven't been run into that much over its lifetime. Definitely consider that when making your decision, but also keep in mind that Scirra are very helpful and it could be much better a year or two from now.

    If you were on my situation, would you gamble on the hope that performance issues like this hopefully won't be a big problem in the future or go with a program that's more likely not to result in issues like that (such as Clickteam Fusion)?

    For comparisons sake I ran the game smooth as butter on a 5 year old laptop with poor ventilation and a 13 tab Chrome browser plus various programs open in the background (Photoshop, Word, PowerPoint etc.) and the audio was fine, as was the frame rate.

    The only issues I had:

    The game froze twice, once for about a second and a second time for 4 seconds, after which I stopped playing and noticed the temperature was at egg-frying levels.

    Plugging in my (admittedly 3rd party) 360 pad part way through the game didn't work, although restarting the program worked fine!

    ...What could be causing me these issues then? O_O Like is there something related to HTML5 I should download? It sounds like I shouldn't be having these issues at all. My DualShock 4 using ControllerMax works perfectly fine with this game btw.

  • For what it's worth, I made a quick test of a td game and got 1200 enemies (with collisions, pathfinding and turrets with predictive aiming) before the fps started consistently dipping below 60 fps - again, on a computer using tech from about 7 years ago.

    sqiddster - airscape hasn't ever had a smooth framerate on my computer (amd Athlon 4400+, vista, 2gb ram, nvidia 9800gt (512mb VRAM)), but I listened to about half a minute of the audio in a level and it didn't seem to be playing abnormally here. No amount of fiddling with the effects or resolution settings helps, so it seems to be because the logic is too demanding (the same performance problems are in the version on the scirra arcade). Btw, you might want to implement the trick I talked about earlier running the game from a shortcut to the exe with --ignore-gpu-blacklist added to it, it wouldn't run with webgl on my computer otherwise.

  • I figured out the problem. My sound card was set to 24bit, 192000 Hz in the audio settings and changing that to 16bit, 48000 Hz fixed all of my performance issues with that game. Now I have no audio issues playing your game and it runs fluidly. In all my years of having this expensive sound card, I never had any idea those higher settings caused performance issues until today. -_-

  • I uploaded the tower defense test here: http://www.amirai.net/forums/td/ (there's a bug in the new beta version of c2 so it doesn't display properly on mobile, it'll get fixed soon, but it works fine on PC)

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  • I just tried that test also on a HP Envy 15 laptop, if this info is any more re assurance to anyone. This is what I consider a mid-range laptop.

    Specs:

    Quad Core i7-3610QM 2.3Ghz Turbo to 3.4Ghz

    16GB ram

    AMD Radeon HD 7750M GPU 512 575MHz 128 Bit 4000MHz - 1GB memory

    I got to about 4k enemies when my FPS was dipping slightly below 60 fps (59-58 fps) C2 has gotten a lot better in performance lately.

  • WAC whoa! You just saved me a TON of work and worry! Now that I know it's a sound card issue I should be able to find a workaround quickly.

    Thanks so much, and thanks everyone else too for testing!

  • Arima Is that flag something I can do for everyone, or do I have to get users to do it manually?

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