I got C2 working in IE7/IE8!!! - Audio HELP?

Hey there, this is a thread dedicated to getting sound to work in IE7 and IE8. Using flashcanvas pro from http://www.flashcanvas.net, I got C2 working in IE7 and IE8. I outline the relatively simple formula here:

http://www.scirra.com/forum/flashcanvas-an-answer-for-nonhtml5-browsers_topic48639.html

My next step is to get sound working. Why isn't C2 using SoundManager2? Is making that the default audio engine the way to go, or is that a worse route than extending their current audio engine to work in IE7 and IE8?

Any help with this would be much appreciated, particularly from developers of the platform. Are you guys interested in solving this problem? Is there a reason you haven't supported IE7 and IE8 using flashcanvas in the past? It was easy enough and the results are fantastic. It should at least be an option. The game I tested it with, Space Blasters, flickers a bit, but many slower games wouldn't have that problem. And maybe that flickering is just because I'm accessing windows in a virtual machine on my Mac. Let me know if you guys experience the slight flickering.

Why not just use the google chrome frame? Or does that not work in IE7 and 8?

Hey brother, google chrome frame is not an answer. Unfortunately, you can't ask people to install new stuff. That's an answer for me and you as individuals, but not when you're trying to build traffic. If they have to install new stuff, they go away, u know.

And in my case, these games are targeted towards schools running old browsers, and the installation of google chrome frame is not happening, and 50% of this old school education market is using ie7 and ie8. So without flash, you basically have lost 50% of your market. You may say why not do it all in Flash then--well then you don't get the new gen tablets and phones.

Yes, you are correct, however I would doubt that these school computers will even be able to run the game through flashcanvas. I may not be correct, but I am pretty sure this is like a browser within a browser - you will have very bad performance and problems with this lack of audio.

You are right, though, I wish schools like mine would just see to upgrade their browsers!

no, flashcanvas isn't a browser within a browser. That was chrome frame. flashcanvas is just a flash .swf that all school supports.

now we just need their audio engine to work in ie7 and ie8 and we're golden.

We're not particularly interested in supporting IE7 or IE8. It's not as simple as you make it sound: IE7 doesn't support a tonne of stuff like even JSON parsing or Web Storage, so the JSON support in Array will be broken and WebStorage won't work, and that's just off the top of my head, I bet a whole scatter of random things will be broken. IE8 has a diabolically slow Javascript engine and IE7 is slower. Data URIs don't work properly. Neither of them are particularly standards compliant. Neither can do audio without Flash. So it's actually probably a lot of maintenance, bug fixing, extra testing, and so on and on. We're pushed for time as it is. Do you know if FlashCanvas is hardware accelerated? If not, it's probably also going to be too slow for many games, since all modern browsers hardware-accelerate their canvases.

If we use Flash for anything, our marketing angle is affected: we regularly say we're 100% Flash-free, pure HTML5 only, and we can't say that if we depend on Flash anywhere.

On top of that StatCounter says IE7 has less than 2% market share worldwide and IE8 has around 15% and still falling. Sooner or later these browsers will be dead so we don't want to do a lot of work for browsers fast becoming obsolete.

You can install Mozilla Firefox, Google Chrome, and Google Chrome Frame without admin permissions now. So even if you're on a locked-down PC with limited permissions, you can still usually install Chrome Frame or another better browser and you're good to go.

If schools using IE8 or earlier want to install Construct 2, we tell them they need to upgrade before using C2 because those browsers are not supported. I think trying to get a modern HTML5 tool like Construct 2 to work with old browsers is kind of obtuse, these browsers just don't support HTML5 and hacks like this will be plagued with lots of little broken features like I mentioned. So we don't want to have the support headache there either. If they need IE for compatibility, they can install Chrome alongside IE and just set Construct 2 to use that. And as a nice bonus, now they have a better browser than IE :)

So there you go, it may be possible but it will probably be slow and buggy and difficult to support and maintain. So we won't support it - install Chrome instead!

You may change your mind after you see how well your game came out here:

http://linkit.faceyspacey.com

As far as support goes, I understand it's a major decision you've made in your company to stay away from flash. I'm a web developer. I hate IE. etc. However, in the public US k-12 education system, about 50% of computers are on IE8 and below. Installing anything extra, whether they can do so with or without group permissions is a major barrier. And besides that, my client requires this. So I have no choice.

ASIDES: I'm pretty sure json parsing can be solved in IE7 pretty easily. Web storage, no, but how many games need that?

Given the nature of the games C2 creates, you guys are missing out on a great opportunity. C2 makes for a perfect platform to make relatively easy learning games. That's your choice obviously. I just need sound. I'll collaborate with you to make this happen. I'll basically do it if you really don't have the bandwidth. Maybe you don't even want the functionality in your codebase. But if you do, any information you can give me will be greatly appreciated and I'll use it to support sound in IE7 and IE8. I bet it won't be that complex at the end of the day. And even though other IE7/IE8 functionality might not work, my guess is you'll support the 80% of functionality most used.

...So I'm about to create 100-200 games on your platform with or without your support. That's not meant to sound bad. I love your platform. I just mean I totally get you have other priorities, but using your platform for education games is mine. The fact that your space blasters game works means that way simpler and slower education games for k-4 children will work perfectly (and without the minor flicker you'll see in my demo). I just need to get sound to work. If you can drop me any hints off hand to get sound working that you can think of, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

I have to admit, that is rather impressive, but it does flicker quite a bit.

Seriously, pushing the schools to install Chrome or Firefox is a much, much better solution than pushing us to support IE7 or IE8. I highly recommend going for modern browsers rather than hacking old browsers to work. We just can't support that.

Ashley, that's not an option when my client (a big textbook publisher) requires it.

Anyone experiment with getting Audio to work in IE7 and IE8 yet using my solution?

What country does have its schools stuck on ie7/ie8 (to the point it can't update to MODERN and DECENT browsers) ?

HTML5 is made to run on the latest browsers.

You can ask people to invent ways to feed a Ferrari engine with coal, and have some proof of concept working, it doesn't change the fact that it is a loss of ressource and philosophicaly and environementaly something that is just wrong, brother.

do u not realize, im dealing with the biggest textbook publisher in the world, and they require this? It's not about philosophically anything. It's about practicality. You may say they're stupid. No, they're right. K-12 public schools in the US stil have a huge numer using IE8 and below.

I'm gonna get it to work just like I did flashcanvas with or without anyone's help. You're losing tons of traffic and money, even on regular sites with 10% using IE8 and below. They're not upgrading because you say so.

Where's your common sense, guys? plus this task isn't that hard. the friggin space blasters demo works in ie8, ie7 and ie6 using my flashcanvas implementation. I'll get audio working just as easily. Why you want to miss out on money, makes no sense to me. Guess you don't have a site generating you $10k that could generate your 11.5k, or in the case of the education industry (this is an example), a 13-15k instead of 10k, my brother. 30-50% of browsers in public k-12 schools in the US are IE8 and below. Yes, ur regular site (i.e. not targeted towards k-12 public schools) is at 11% or something, but that's still a significant number.

You guys are so religious around here. Why not some help, eh?

Ashley mentioned some things that will cause a problem, which i havent run into yet (and I've now done a whole custom game that worked out perfectly), but I bet i can find solutions for those too. I think it was something with json.

Anyway the point is this is a fantastic platform. Why not support IE8 and below. It would be a huge selling point. It doesn't mean you can go on newgrounds because flashcanvas only works in IE, not other browsers, but it would mean 100% complete cross-platform support!

We don't want to encourage anyone to stay on old browsers. All the exciting new features being added like gamepad support, fullscreen support, high-resolution timers, hardware-accelerated rendering, javascript engines fast enough to run physics simulations and particle effects, generational/concurrent garbage collectors for smoothness, Web Audio API, WebGL shaders, real-time audio and video streaming/peer-to-peer calls over the web (currently in development by browser makers), page visibility features (which also enables pausing the game when hidden), new form control types, Web Fonts, sandboxed iframes for secure game hosting, and other features which we don't currently use but might in future (mouse lock, features from CSS3 or the new DOM additions)... they're only in the IE9+, Firefox 4+ and Chrome generation of browsers.

Firefox and Chrome release updates every 6 weeks now, often adding more features too. The web is moving forwards fast. We're trying to keep Construct 2 up with the bleeding edge. Being at the forefront of technology is important enough to us that if an organisation does not want to install a free improved browser to support Construct 2, then we won't slow ourselves down by looking back.

By insisting we're also increasing pressure to these organisations to upgrade. Old, outdated browsers hold back the development of the web - just think of the complete nightmare that was IE6, and how it continued (or even continues!) to be a problem over ten years after its release! Note Firefox and Chrome automatically and silently upgrade to prevent this problem. So we want to strongly encourage people to use modern browsers, too. It's sort of "being cruel to be kind" in my eyes, because it is actually better for them too, even if they don't want it (these browsers are a lot more secure as well for example). And I am confident that despite possible short term gains, in the long term it is more beneficial for our business to insist on this: I wouldn't want anyone to still be using IE7 in 5 years time because we let them get away with using it...

Just a quick note, about Ashley last comment, but Internet Explorer is also automatically and silently updated since the beginning of this year, capped by the OS limitations (IE8 on XP, 9 on Vista and 7) if I'm not mistaken.

do u not realize, im dealing with the biggest textbook publisher in the world, and they require this? It's not about philosophically anything. It's about practicality. You may say they're stupid. No, they're right. K-12 public schools in the US stil have a huge numer using IE8 and below.

I'm gonna get it to work just like I did flashcanvas with or without anyone's help. You're losing tons of traffic and money, even on regular sites with 10% using IE8 and below. They're not upgrading because you say so.

Where's your common sense, guys? plus this task isn't that hard. the friggin space blasters demo works in ie8, ie7 and ie6 using my flashcanvas implementation. I'll get audio working just as easily. Why you want to miss out on money, makes no sense to me. Guess you don't have a site generating you $10k that could generate your 11.5k, or in the case of the education industry (this is an example), a 13-15k instead of 10k, my brother. 30-50% of browsers in public k-12 schools in the US are IE8 and below. Yes, ur regular site (i.e. not targeted towards k-12 public schools) is at 11% or something, but that's still a significant number.

You guys are so religious around here. Why not some help, eh?

Ashley mentioned some things that will cause a problem, which i havent run into yet (and I've now done a whole custom game that worked out perfectly), but I bet i can find solutions for those too. I think it was something with json.

Anyway the point is this is a fantastic platform. Why not support IE8 and below. It would be a huge selling point. It doesn't mean you can go on newgrounds because flashcanvas only works in IE, not other browsers, but it would mean 100% complete cross-platform support!

Calm down, there a reason what you are talking is like a DVD disc game to insert on Nintendo 64 console and it works, but who uses it? don't waste your time to develop your awesome game for IE 7 and 8 with flashcanvas.

Actually, the news report says the modern browsers come with HTML5 are using more than IE7/8 there a source:

thenextweb.com/dd/2012/04/19/74-of-the-browser-market-supports-html5-video-but-flashs-death-will-take-time

Also remember Internet Explorer 6 is officially "crapware", also IE 7 and 8 will be crapware soon, you can notice a lot of experienced users really hate IE.

Did you know Microsoft stopped supporting Windows XP? then Scirra DOES support Windows XP! but with modern browsers.