In defense of Construct 2

  • wow this got big 0:

    i will just add more examples of Unity stupid things

    THE GODAWFUL!! Input manager!! oh sweet mother of bambi, the input system for Unity is a big BIG mess!! and cant be change in runtime, there are some input managers in the assets store, so be prepared to pay 30$ if you want your game to look professional

    The community! i asked for help 3 times, none got a single answer, here in scirra, there will be atleast 1 answer

  • I think this remake of Donkey Kong by Ribis in C2 is alot more complicated than a simple mario game and it shows what you can do by combining behaviours with custom events.

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    I never played DKC so I can't readily compare this clone for specidic details. This is an awesome example of what can be achieved using c2, but nowhere could I find the author stating he didn't use the sdk to help him make this.

    You may be surprised to know, but there isn't really anything going on in DKC that makes it significantly complicated than mario 3, at a core level. I am making this claim based on only what I can see in the demo. Sure the snes could handle more x,y, and z, but the basics concepts of how x, y and z are handled and resolved didn't change much from the nes to the snes.

    well, I use just platform and solid behavior... I don't use any SDK or unofficial plugin, the gameplay is simple, just for some check collision I had a problem (when the player slips on the wall or the margin of platform, but I resolve it with 4 events... )and for a barrel launch, I had to make my own gravity...

    the number of event: 1200 but I almost finish all of the gameplay, now I'm starting to make a editor level, (for use tilemap)

    Go back and read the comment that was made in this regard. It wasn't that you CAN'T make mario in c2, it was that you can't make a mario clone using the platform behavior.

    Actually I made already the super mario world clone with only solid/platform... with an advance system of day/night (and change the color of the light, planet...change the speed of the time...etc) with shadow, using the torch when you are going to a cavern, same for the fire of the weapons (make light with shadow) advance item system (take objects, use it...etc) advance weapons management (for every weapons, you can choose the type of bullet you want to use, the type of fire, and off course, to make a new weapon you have to edit 20 variable to set everything... the precision, time of reload, if when reload the weapon release a loader/shell ..... the water system with a nice effect of the bullet and the bullet time, with everything go slow.... maybe I will post a GIF, I never posted that project

    very easy to make just the mario clone <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green">

    anyway, I have to say something... In my opinion, construct2 is very easy to use if you programming or you know the logic... everybody have an unique method/logic to think how you can make a game... but, when you start to make a big project, construct2 isn't good, I have a hard time if I don't open my project in 2 weeks to find some event, or some logic...

    for example, if you can choose a color of the event, make a special link to another event, or comment the subevent can be easly to understand the projects... and when you make 10 different event sheets start to be difficult...

  • Hmm, what i make for bigger projects is an own documentation-System paralel at background only for me. its a little bit more work but it helps (later workflow). And take all global variables in an extra event-sheet (very helpful). But yes, at my last project when i have a logical chain i wish sometimes, that i can recolor the eventsheets (my tipp: notice the numbers extra from eventsheet thats to be to another. and (ownmake)gizmos (markers in unity (in the world-editor) was very helpful for the editor when you create big worlds.

  • for example, if you can choose a color of the event, make a special link to another event, or comment the subevent can be easly to understand the projects... and when you make 10 different event sheets start to be difficult...

    +1

    Since this topic has already a lot of suggestions, I'd also like to put mine here:

    • Since Scirra has a lot of trouble with bug reports (a lot of users simply don't use the bug report forum when they find an issue), wouldn't be it a good idea to make a bug report page similar to other companies'? It would list the reported bugs, and users could comment on it, just like in the forum, but Scirra could have more control over it (for ex.: you can't submit a bug report without an attached .capx file). Also, you should put a "Report bug" button under the Construct 2 section in the main menu.
    • Similar could be useful for feature requests.

    As for the modularity, I totally agree. It's a must have function these days in an engine (as well as having access to low-level features of things like the bevaiors). I understand that it's a complex feature and it takes a lot of work and time to implement. So, I'm patient with that. I just hope Scirra won't delay it too long.

    And a little on-topic

    I also think that C2 is a better choice for 2D development than Unity. Unity is a complex game engine designed not just for 2D and it feels. Even an experienced user has to invest more time and work to make a project. I've tried several engines, but for 2D, it's always C2 for me. This is one of my best buys since I became a developer. I'm not saying that C2 is perfect of course. It has it's issues, just like any software. But I think a lot of users (and not talking about anybody specifically) has their judgement clouded by the projects made with C2. As it was said before this post, C2 is a powerful and well-maintained engine. Not to forget the great community.

  • Ribis i haven't touched my capx for Super Ubie Land for almost 2 years until recently when I decided to update the game and rerelease it as Super Ubie Island REMIX. I had no problem finding anything and that is a "big" game. I have over 5k events. I think that is more of an organization issue. Create a workflow and organization method that you can remember.

  • Half the time when people report bugs they aren't, it's the way things are (I made this mistake myself) and virtually every time I have "discovered a serious bug" it has been a mistake I haven't spotted. C2's event/pick/select interaction can get quite complicated. It also attracts people with less coding ability than (say) Unity, which in many ways is a good thing, but can have problems for bug reporting.

    I (personally) think C2 is excellent though for a very large problem it would get difficult to manage, perhaps. But it's really horses for courses. Unity is a 3D engine made to work in 2D. But then again, Unity isn't £60 odd for a does-everything licence (except the business requirement bit)

  • Ribis i haven't touched my capx for Super Ubie Land for almost 2 years until recently when I decided to update the game and rerelease it as Super Ubie Island REMIX. I had no problem finding anything and that is a "big" game. I have over 5k events. I think that is more of an organization issue. Create a workflow and organization method that you can remember.

    well, you are right, it depends about workflow, my last project has 1200 events (didn't finish yet) and I made easy to understand, but it depends how the events are complicated... if someone make easy gameplay (like mario ) there is no problem if there are a lot of events... you can organize your code for the enemy, platform, bosses...etc

    but when you make a difficult gameplay, where just the gameplay of the player take 600 events, you start to get in trouble, because more complicated is the gameplay, more difficult is to make others event for everything...I mean, if you have a player than take items, use items, how to kill some enemy (hit on back, on front, up....)

    for example, my player has 40 animations, and this 40 animations have to be good for all of the eventualities, the player can kill some enemy by different hit etc.... in construct2 you have to scroll a lot to find the specific event, the comment take more space...etc I can't see well my code...

    if in construct2 you have the possibility to choose a color for every single event, would be fantastic, because for example, in my game the green event would be stuff just for the player, the red would be just for the enemy, the yellow color would be the event of the interection about player and enemy...etc...

    when I made another project with corona SDK (lua) I wrote a lot of code and it's easier to see everything, because you can comment every line and you have more tool to help yourself to organize your work... a block of event take a lot of space

  • 1) Comment everything almost

    2) Keep seperate object hierarchies code in seperate files as far as humanly possible

    3) Subdivide those using groups as section headings

    Of this 1) is the most important.

  • I agree with paulscottrobson.

    I use separate sheets

    I try to stick to a workflow similar to programming. I comment everything so I can keep my code organized and in the eventuality

    I would share it, it would be easy to understand.

    I use groups and sub-groups.

    So you have everything at your disposal for keeping things organized.

  • for example, if you can choose a color of the event, make a special link to another event, or comment the subevent can be easly to understand the projects... and when you make 10 different event sheets start to be difficult...

    YES! This * 1000+ I tend to use a prolific number of event sheets, but bigger projects just don't work as smoothly.

    @Ribis - I understand it is quite easy to make a Mario "Like" game. But I am unconvinced you "cloned" it; A clone is an exact functional copy. A perfect cloning would even include common glitches that occured as a result of how collisions were detected and resolved.

    I am quite certain, given your diddy kong country example, that you did a great job on the super mario world game. But I won't budge on what I said. You CAN"T make a mario CLONE without a custom collision system.

    So far, it seems that people have taken my statement as a sign of ignorance, that I don't know how to use construct. This is far from the truth. I personally have made the mario 3 collision system, both using the sdk and using events. We are talking 1000s of events. The platformer behavior cannot be used to clone mario. It resolves collisions all wrong and lacks the right tools to handle proper resolution.

    Can it be used to make a mario like game? YES. yes yes yes. But it cannot be used to clone mario.

    Now to beat a dead horse further to death... for those who missed my original point: Becuase it (contruct 2) can't even clone a simple old game using behaviors, my point is that it can't be used to make ceartain new game ideas. A point that is painfully clear to me as I have yet to be able to make a game and not also have to make my own collision detection/and or response methods. This is way to cumbersome to do with events. Enter the SDK which is the weakest component of construct 2. Enter my final point, if you are using c2 and the sdk, why not use unity? It has a much better code oriented environment. Why use construct 2 at all? I have my reasons of course, but

  • wow this got big 0:

    i will just add more examples of Unity stupid things

    THE GODAWFUL!! Input manager!! oh sweet mother of bambi, the input system for Unity is a big BIG mess!! and cant be change in runtime, there are some input managers in the assets store, so be prepared to pay 30$ if you want your game to look professional

    The community! i asked for help 3 times, none got a single answer, here in scirra, there will be atleast 1 answer

    You have no idea how many days I spent working on base code trying to address this issue. I don't understand how a product of Unitys scale can have such a mind blowing problem. I made my fix to the problem. I then bought other peoples fixes to learn some more. In the end, it looks like most solutions are a mess of polling. But, Unity is about making money. I feel construct, given its intimate size, is much less about that. Unity doesn't need to address half the problems it has because it can make money off of other people doing the work and selling assets.

    To be sure. The C2 community is by far much more helpful. People actually talk and share on these forums. Unity can involve alot of asking questions and not getting answers.

  • YES! This * 1000+ I tend to use a prolific number of event sheets, but bigger projects just don't work as smoothly.

    Ribis - I understand it is quite easy to make a Mario "Like" game. But I am unconvinced you "cloned" it; A clone is an exact functional copy. A perfect cloning would even include common glitches that occured as a result of how collisions were detected and resolved.

    I am quite certain, given your diddy kong country example, that you did a great job on the super mario world game. But I won't budge on what I said. You CAN"T make a mario CLONE without a custom collision system.

    So far, it seems that people have taken my statement as a sign of ignorance, that I don't know how to use construct. This is far from the truth. I personally have made the mario 3 collision system, both using the sdk and using events. We are talking 1000s of events. The platformer behavior cannot be used to clone mario. It resolves collisions all wrong and lacks the right tools to handle proper resolution.

    Can it be used to make a mario like game? YES. yes yes yes. But it cannot be used to clone mario.

    Now to beat a dead horse further to death... for those who missed my original point: Becuase it (contruct 2) can't even clone a simple old game using behaviors, my point is that it can't be used to make ceartain new game ideas. A point that is painfully clear to me as I have yet to be able to make a game and not also have to make my own collision detection/and or response methods. This is way to cumbersome to do with events. Enter the SDK which is the weakest component of construct 2. Enter my final point, if you are using c2 and the sdk, why not use unity? It has a much better code oriented environment. Why use construct 2 at all? I have my reasons of course, but

    well, when I was making the gameplay of the players, I had a similar glitch as the original game (really, but I fixed it, maybe it was a case? bug with animal an barrel scroll)

    it's impossible to make a perfect clone of the game, we are using different tools from donkey kong country...for making a perfect clone you have to use the same tools.... but you can make a game looks like the original.... if you make "fake" clone, a normal user can't recognize the difference between the original one...if you do a perfect work

    the behavior don't make a game, but make your work easier... you can make a game without a behavior... and if you use it, off course, you have to make events to reach your goal...

    when I'm making every game, or every test, I have a method, for example, if I make a "class" of the monster or weapons, I want to make all possible interactions... in my "mario game"(because I used mario player and some sprite from it) for example, if I want to make a new weapons, take to me like 2 minutes because I have all variable and I have to change just graphics(weapon, clip, bullet, shell) and the sound because I made the logic how works all weapons...the same things is for all thing, and in this case construct2 works very well...it's easy to make your own logic in a few minutes and see if works well... with unity take more more time

    I see a lot of people complain because construct2 doesn't make a good game, or because of performance... and I don't understand why...

    the tool don't make a game, you have to make a game with a tool, and that doesn't mean you don't know how to use construct... you can make the same game with different tool... but you have to make the logic how works the game.... you can reach a result with different way and logic.... we have to find the best way/logic to reach the goal...

    when someone complain the performance because someone is making a platform 2d like mario (easy) and says:

    "why the performance is bad? i'm making mario blablabla..."

    it's better to use another tool like unity, if someone make a big project and the performance get bad, just move in different tool... in unity store there are a lot project like mario style,racing car...etc so, you don't have to code...you have already the script to make your game, and the performance will be just a bad memory

    I complain just the organization of the events, because it's easy to says "use groups, use different page, comment...etc) well, this works if you are make a easy logic of the game...if the player has a easy gameplay like (walk, jump) but when you make 600 events just for the player because of the gameplay, can be pretty hard... because a block of event take a lot of space, and the comment go in top or below... for that, I suggest to make a option like you can choose the color of the single event... will make easier to read the event just by eyes...I don't "feel" good when I'm working with a lot of event block, because I can't see my logic pretty well...

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  • ruskul

    hehe, thats sounds about right, exactly my expirience

  • I complain just the organization of the events, because it's easy to says "use groups, use different page, comment...etc) well, this works if you are make a easy logic of the game...if the player has a easy gameplay like (walk, jump) but when you make 600 events just for the player because of the gameplay, can be pretty hard... because a block of event take a lot of space, and the comment go in top or below... for that, I suggest to make a option like you can choose the color of the single event... will make easier to read the event just by eyes...I don't "feel" good when I'm working with a lot of event block, because I can't see my logic pretty well...

    I agree, easy logic is easy to put in events, but complex events get very heavy, even with good organization.

  • ...you have already the script to make your game, and the performance will be just a bad memory

    lol so true, offten times there is no shortcut

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