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Framerate vs. Framerate

  • The main issue is that your game is likely NOT hitting a consistent 30 fps. If the lower frame-rate is due to the CPU/GPU being taxed and having to wait longer between frames, you wont get "smooth" 30 fps, because you're getting a fluctuating fps in the first place. It's possible to schedule longer times between renders for logic, however construct doesn't have an in engine option to do this, so your "30 fps" is not really the same as a console games 30 fps, it's a 25-35 fps from overtaxed hardware. If you were to build your own renderer that skips every other frame in a properly scheduled way it'd be 'smooth' (if you could really call 30 fps smooth in the first place, something i'd argue), I've done tests with Q3D doing exactly this, and even have an option to skip rendering of specified ratios of frames. If your game is lagging to 30 fps it's unplayable because of the instability of the logic and the effect that has on frame scheduling, not because of the renderer/browser or otherwise. It's the same way any game because horrendous to play with significant drops in framerate, especially when timedelta based games make everything unstable in fluctuating fps.

  • Why does 30 fps in any native/console game means smooth game,

    and 30 fps in any Construct 2 game means slow, almost not playable game?

    Maybe it's silly question, but I'm just curious

    Because consoles are designed to run at 30 fps, the engine is capped at 30, so there's no fluctuations. A stable 30 fps is very playable.

    A stable 60 fps is more fluid though.

    The problem is that games designed to run at 60 fps sometimes can't and the dips cause frametime variance, to the end user, it looks as though the game is very stuttery, fast, slow, fast, slow etc. This makes it feel worse than if its running stable 30 fps.

    It's the same for PC games, running with or without vsync, if the frame rate jumps all over the place, the game feels very choppy even if its running 40-80 fps.

  • Todays consoles are mainly made for 3d graphics. 3d graphics look still good with 30 fps, but 2d games not. Old consoles, like Nintendo Snes or Sega Genesis had a framerate of 50 or 60 Hz because of this.

    Also, what some people don't know, today smooth 2d graphics are often more "complicated" for the GPU than 3d graphics. Old graphic cards was optimized for 2d things like parallax scrolling, todays GPUs are optimized for 3d (like vertexes). Because of this editors like Unity seems to work smoother.

  • Also, fun fact: a lot of game studios working on console exclusive games don't even bother to manage frameskip / delta time.

    If the game drops under the targeted framerate, then everything slows down (visuals, music, sfx, etc...). You'd be surprised, many studios don't give a damn at this issue and just optimize the game to be sure it will never drop under the framerate it's based on.

    Consoles have a lot of flaws compared to PC, but they really are a paradise on this side if the game is not set for PC release later.

  • As everyone said C2 is built to run at 60fps. dt should in theory cope for dropped frames. However that does not seem to be the case.

    I linked to a article that was about fixing the dt and putting the game to 30fps. The theory runs on the idea that the engine loops as fast as possible. The game also tracks the dt difference. however logic only updates every 30fps. So even if the game dips below 60fps the logic already at 30fps anyways so you will never see the dip. however as always. it's not 60fps so there is no value in the design choice.

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  • If the options are

    1. Anything sub-60fps is unplayable

    2. Anything sub-60fps instantly drops to 30fps and it's smooth at 30fps

    I know what my choice would be. Currently anything sub-60, at least in my game, is completely unplayable because it's so stuttery. 55fps is waaaay worse than 30fps stable.

    I wonder if something like this is possible?

  • Lets try the inverse of the postulate.

    Problem:

    My fps max is set at 30, but my game is not working correctly and running a slower odd frame rate.

    Suggested solution:

    If the max fps was set at 60 my game would run better.

    It would be doing twice the work.

    Tune in next week folks when we use reverse logic on to say we need a Html5 exporter so that we can reach a wider platform, rather than this native one... that runs so slow.

  • newt what are you talking about?

  • sqiddster I think he's joking about "HTML5 + WebGL with Chromium-based wrappers" being ever considered faster than native in real game situations.

  • I'm using reverse psychology(not really), since analogies are for children, and I'm preparing for next weeks rant for a native exporter.

    They're both recurring arguments, and its not childish at all to keep bringing up either subject, again, and again, and again.

  • I know what my choice would be. Currently anything sub-60, at least in my game, is completely unplayable because it's so stuttery. 55fps is waaaay worse than 30fps stable.

    Yes for frame drops below 60fps I'd take game slowdowns or stable 30fps over screen updates that tugs and jerks and dysfunctional game logic any day. Is this a conscious design decision on C2's part or an inherent problem with the html5 + browser wrapper solution?

    I dig C2 and I dig how productive I can be with it but sometimes I get the sense that Scirra thinks it's a good thing to withhold control from C2 users. To protect them from themselves or something. That's a bit of a turn-off.

  • If you want a non-coding game builder with native exporters try this:

    https://www.buildbox.com/

    It's the game makers dream for only $2,675

  • Wow well that just smells like a business model of doom. I'd be tempted to give it a good try to figure out if the price was actually worth it but a 15-day trial? Nope nope nope, don't think so

  • ErekT

    it seems like NLP approach for game making engines

    but if they really did good working native exporters then... congratulations

  • BuildBox looks amazing. Look how many physics objects are on screen in Phases and that's also on Android.

    But $2500???

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