Sale for Developers Looking for Vector Software

  • The current version of Flash is a disaster: no motion graph, no IK bones, the object level undo removed, And the drawing tools have not been touched in ages by the devs - instead we LOST drawing tools like the deco tool.

    For game asset creation and animation a bone tool and a proper motion graph are crucial. Without these I would not even touch Flash.

    Spriter and Anime Studio are the way to go.

  • Use old version of flash, I am using cs 4 and it works well. Because it is vector, you do not necessarily need bones or motion graph, a lot can be done with frame to frame animation.

    Animestudio has one big problem, its locked bones creates jerking effect. That is why I moved back to flash, not sure they have fixed that now.

    Spriter also has some jerks, as I was testing it right now, but it can be smoothed out.

    Anyways you have to get a vector software, because spriter is not a design tool and trust me if someone has learned flash or illustrator, they will never go back to inckscape or other vector software, which are no where in comparison.

    Spriter is looking good to me and affordable for now, but it will take me a week or more to completely test it.

  • I may have been a bit harsh sounding (it was late). Flash is a good tool, although I never got along with its bone tools, and the severely handicapped motion graph editor: I like having full motion graph control as an animator. The motion graph and bone implementation in Flash was rather half-hearted at best, unworkable at worst.

    And Adobe's ridiculous treatment of Flash has caused it to become a shadow of what it could have been in the animation market. Really, such a shame. They pretty much left the animation market open for Toonboom and other competitors.

    I can't remember having seen the jerky effect in AS - although I only really begun to animate with it two years ago.

    But the great thing is that we do not have to limit ourselves to only one or two applications! Use whatever works best in your situation and for your project. I use C4D, Blender, Lightwave, InkScape, Photoline, Anime Studio, Sketchup, Xara Designer Pro, a bit of GIMP (as a plugin to Photoline), and so on.

    For more complex vector work I use Xara, while for most other vector work a combination of Photoline and InkScape works just fine (Photoline has a nice app link that allows me to do round-trip editing between the two).

    I have used all Adobe software professionally since Photoshop 3.5(!). I still own a license of CS6, but I removed Adobe software for the most part out of my workflow in the last two years. Good riddance, I say. It's a personal choice: I just do not like Adobe as a company anymore. Subscription only is a no-go for me.

    Yes, Illustrator is nice and all (although it has a lot of idiosyncrasies as well), but I just do not wish to deal with that company anymore.

  • For the new adobe cc you don't need a consistent connection through the net. Being online once a month is enough.

  • Ohh and i would never ever use something else than Illustrator & photoshop anymore. Can't imagine a workflow without smart objects anymore. That saves hundreds of hours.

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  • For the new adobe cc you don't need a consistent connection through the net. Being online once a month is enough.

    It's not about CC requiring an online connection or not - it's about renting your software. And a number other things related to CC subscriptions.

    Ohh and i would never ever use something else than Illustrator & photoshop anymore. Can't imagine a workflow without smart objects anymore. That saves hundreds of hours.

    Photoline supports similar workflows: for one, PL offers virtual clones of existing layers, layer groups, layer masks, vector/text objects, and so on. They function very much like smart objects, with the ADDED two advantages that they update in real-time when changes are made to the original one, and that the original object can be edited in context. Both are impossible with SOs in Photoshop. A smart object in Photoshop does not update in real time (must be saved, which is awkward) and cannot be edited in situ (requiring a separate document window, which is even more inconvenient). And Photoshop does not support multiple page documents, which Photoline does - making the virtual layer concept even more powerful.

    Second, Photoline can also, like the newest PS CC, place external content with the link remaining live. So I can edit an object in an external application (for example a pdf, an svg, or a psd file), and the placed external layer with that content automatically updates when I save the changes. Or manage my Photoline elements as separate individual elements with all the functionality of Photoline.

    All in all, Photoline's workflow "outsmarts" Photoshop smart objects in several ways. Another boon is that layer masks in Photoline are treated like regular layers, so one layer mask can serve as a master for all the other masks applied in a Photoline layer stack - update the one mask, and all the others update as well. Photoshop cannot do this with layer masks, because they are limited to the one layer. (To be fair, this could be solved with clipping layers in Photoshop, although clipping layers are somewhat inflexible.)

    Of course, SOs in Photoshop do have certain advantages not available in Photoline: only Adobe software can open AI and PSD files with the full complement of supported features.

    Anyway, Photoshop is not the only application that offers such a workflow. Honestly, I feel Photoline's workflow in this regard is arguably superior to Photoshop.

    Btw, two more advantage of PL over Photoshop SO model: 1) there is no need to convert layers to SO for non-destructive tranformation of a layer - that's a given in PL. so it saves time. No need for silly SOs to retain bitmap layers quality.

    and 2) there is also no need to convert layers to SOs to add non-destructive filters/effects in Photoline. Again saves time.

    Combined with the other caveats related to smart objects in Photoshop that I already mentioned above, I can work much quicker in Photoline than in Photoshop.

  • Never heard of photoline. Will have a look.

    I think the problem is 10 yeras back there was no competition for adobe products and we were forced to learn that only. Today there are many software but because of the learning curve, not many wish to re learn a new software from scratch.

    I do not like the rent system for adobe cc too, it is just too much, but they are the only company who can actually change their business model like that and still survive, they have so many users.

  • That is very true - especially about the time one has to spend on learning new applications. And the situation is not helped by the fact that 99% of tutorials and books are written for Adobe's software, because whether we like it or not, PH, AI, and InD are the industry standards.

    Photoline is great, but there is almost no mention of it on the web. No tutorials either. And it is a complicated image editor comparable to Photoshop (minus the video and 3d stuff) - not something for beginners. Nor is Photoshop, which is also very complex - but at least for PH a multitude of books and tutorials are available to help. I was able to make the switch quickly, but only because I used Photoshop at an advanced level, so the concepts and skills were easily transferred.

    Having said that, the workflow is a bit different. Not worse, not better, just different.

  • I used many programs in my "career" and since about 5 years i'm working with adobe jobwise, so i don't need any alternative.

    I'm pretty happy with it. Copy paste between different programs etc makes it so comfortable that I just can't believe that anything else comes close to it....but Hey, I'll try some of your suggestions i guess

  • Don't change your workflow if you are happy with it - and Adobe software is great. Especially the interoperability like you say.

    It's merely a personal decision on my part to avoid Adobe software. If Adobe had kept full licenses along with subscriptions I would probably still have been in Adobe's court.

    And every application has its advantages and disadvantages. Work with the software that works best for you!

  • From what I understand, you can use Spriter with a lot more than just C2

    But I am not sure how Spriter fits in to this topic because - as of now - you can not draw with Spriter so it can not be lumped in the same category as 'Vector Software'

    As for 'game' animation, I would take Spriter over Anime Studio any day... Other animation, it would be the opposite...

    Whether the topic is Vector Software, Animation Software or anything else, it is best to compare apples to apples IMHO

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