3 things I'd like to see in future programs

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  • I respectfully disagree with your view there. You can clearly see where I was attacked

    I respectfully also disagree, since this sounds like "he did it" to my ears. You could've dealt with it better. But Quazi could also have worded his post better, hence I asked both of you to calm things down. All I'm trying to do is run a forum where threads don't get bogged down in to flamewars, it's too common on the internet.

    [quote:17m6bekc]I posted some ideas, and I think anyone would agree that they have been met with some very fierce (and somewhat puzzling in its ferocity) opposition, but I think a lot of it was due to misunderstanding

    I speak only for myself, but I welcome ideas. I hear a lot of ideas on these forums which is great. But I haven't got anywhere near enough time to even start a lot of these ideas. My way of filtering is to argue against ideas I don't think are viable (and I sit at a feasibility/hours of my time point of view, as I'm sure you gathered!). The best ideas will stand up to skepticism provided they have a well reasoned arguer behind them. That's my view anyway, things tend to get a bit more chaotic with everyone throwing in their two cents

    Anyways I hope you're not discouraged from posting other ideas, I certainly hadn't even thought of sports games at all before your post, so that was an interesting angle to hear. Thanks for the post

  • ... post fail, editing

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  • PS: Okay, not-fail post follows. Perhaps too late but whatever.

    I realize I'm a little late to the Wall Of Text Competition, but here's my entry:

    When you post stuff in a thread that clearly reads DISCUSSION, you might be getting some discussion. So keep that in mind when you say things like this:

    I posted some ideas, and I think anyone would agree that they have been met with some very fierce (and somewhat puzzling in its ferocity) opposition

    In a discussion, when someone thinks you're wrong, they'll tell you. I also think you're wrong and I will outline why:

    1. A Web-style creation system with simple-to-program randomization ---

    The mistake here lies in the simple randomization. What's simpler than rand()? Of course, that's without getting into the "Insert American Football Game" Button issue (yet!)

    For it to be built into a template with a webbing style.

    Huh? webbing?

    Sports-friendly creation algorithms

    The mistake here lies in assuming Construct is not friendly to sport games. Construct is 2D friendly. If your game is 2D, then Construct can help. Now if by "friendly" you mean "built-in" then no, it's not built in. You can always make your own behaviors and even share them with the community. If you head to the finished plugins section of the forum, you'll find out several people have already done this, and we're very thankful for their work.

    A Template system ---

    As already mentioned, there is already a template system. There is no American Football template, so instead of posting a page detailing what such a template should include, you could make one.

    What's left?

    Oh, a detail.


    American Football games are perhaps the most difficult to program because of the incredible attention to detail that has to be taken into account to recreate something that closely resembles its real-life counterpart.That's why doing it in C is not ideal unless you have a talented dev team working on it as a full-time job. Programs like Construct have the ability to cut through 90% of that, the only thing it needs is a purposeful template that will take the guesswork and jimmy-rigging of general features out of the equation.

    Emphasis mine. You will NEVER pump out a good game without WORKING ON IT. No matter the tool. Work always shows. So, if you want, say...

    Difficulty depends on how realistic you want it to be. To make 10-yard Fight, probably not so much. To make Tecmo Super Bowl, much more difficult, though not impossible. To make anything above that, virtually impossible unless you're a genius with this program and have incredible attention to detail that can stand the community scrutiny which even Madden in all it's complex programming glory has not been able to do.

    yeah if you want Tecmo Super Bowl or even Madden quality, then you'll have to put in about the same amount of work that went into Madden. If they have a system that helps them do that game, well they've built that system over several years, refining and improving it. It's very specific, and It's a lot of work. WORK. And you must know your tools in and out, with ANY game system. This includes Construct.

    As for the "ferocity" you've been argued against is... well... because you're so very very very wrong on most accounts.

    Yes, this includes joysticks. See, some console devs are STILL struggling with analog input. Some still use a button for running, and simply use a fixed, unchangeable dead zone (Bad!!) if they even use dead zone at all, and if out of the dead zone they check the angle and that'd be all. Remember how long it took to get rid of tank-like movement? some still use that.

    Why? well, because consoles have drifted from the green pastures that are fixed hardware specs. You'll see devs struggling also with multiple resolutions now. So yeah, they're multimillion-budget dev teams, and they can't figure out developing for multiple resolutions (Dead Rising, Soul Calibur).

    SO! if you have doubts about the NUMBERS... well, nothing stops you from reading the input from the controller and putting it out on the screen. In construct, that'd be two events per stick (one for each axis) and the xbox controller object, plus two text objects per stick. Really fast to do. You should really do it. Seriously.

    As for PC Controller support yeah. (hi devs!)

    And FINALLY:

    Wheee!! FOOTBALL http://octavoarte.cl/futbol.cap

    5 minutes, discounting half an hour of head-scratching with some Object Pairer weirdness..... I may have found a bug there, will do some tests to make sure.

    Now. If you breathe deeply, you'll find that the community is pretty helpful when you let it help you. If you don't want feedback or are not ready to accept it, please don't ask for it.

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  • ok so from what i understand, your problem is the controls arent working properly, not responding when you input something like right thumb up? thats never, once happened when ive used the xbox 360 controller plugin. but thats probably because i dont use the "control is down" condition, especially when dealing with the sticks. because that would simple defeat the purpose of anything being analog in the first place. your not getting any analog input from that at all, it simple checks if the -1 to +1 value is within a certain range, this cant be innacurate and i dont understand what your claiming when you say that. a simple system compare could replace it, and it wouldnt "not work" like your claiming. perhaps this is a thing i neglected to say because i don't play around with control is down for that type of thing in the first place, it defeats the whole purpose of analog and could simply be replaced with keyboard input. but i thought someone who made the point that analog type control was so important wouldn't even be using this type of command in the first place.

    Anyways the whole reason i went off in a tangent about the accuracy of the analog sticks and all that anyways in an aggressive tone is that you say all these weasel words about the sticks and make unverified claims to prove your point. also you just say things that are completely wrong and vague.

    [quote:ll24n1v6]My comments about the analog stick problems are a fact. It's a well known fact that the XBOX 360's analog stick accuracy is off, and it's been an issue with commands in football games on the console. All Pro Football's kicking game issues come to mind, and there are others in Madden. In Construct there are some issues with the analog sticks accuracy and the way it decides which stick is being activated for certain commands.

    [quote:ll24n1v6]It's accepted but it's not very accurate, and you definitely need it to be moreso for sports games.

    thats why i seem to attack what your saying, because your WRONG and you seem to be to stubborn to think otherwise, trying to make me seem like im such an asshole for correcting what you've said.

    also you take a little comment like

    [quote:ll24n1v6]dont dismiss things without completely understanding what it is they can do, thats just a little bit ignorant.

    as if im insulting you and calling you an idiot. I'm simply referring to ONE thing you did, which you WERE wrong about, for said reason. i didn't attack you at all, simply the things you were saying. and if you cant take a little rebuttal to your post what the hell are you doing in a discussion forum or communicating through the internet in the first place.

    [quote:ll24n1v6]Absolute nonsense. Not only do you not have a clue as to what you're talking about as you haven't seen ONE line of what I'm doing (which should've led you to stop before you posted that), but explain to me how you can possibly screw up a simple one-line command that makes a character jump up by pressing up on the right stick? You can't, because this is a basic operation of Construct that cannot be done in error, yet there are issues with it's accuracy and selection, and there are issues with it in other programs. Accuracy is a control issue, the selection is a software issue. But whatever, believe what you want. You know everything.

    [quote:ll24n1v6] Yeah, exactly Mr. Know-it-all. So don't act like you know everything and have some psychic ability to know what someone is doing wrong in something you've never seen. That's beyond condescending, but I'm sure you'll reverse that and say it's my fault rather than yours, right?...

    i dont need to see what youre doing, i can forsee the problems your running into with what little clues i was given by you and previous things you had said in other threads, theres not that many ways to handle analog control input from the controller, and problems i assumed you seemed to be having were pretty typical so i could formulate my posts based on them. but once again you just said something aggressive towards me because of your lack of experience with construct, thinking that you know what your saying and what i was trying to say in my post, which i admit would seem vague from your point of view, my apologies for that, i simply assumed you were looking at it from the point of view which someone who made the mistakes i assumed you had made, i should of explained what i thought you did beforehand, but even so i still think that you've done something wrong in your programming using the control is down method instead of measuring the outputted value. so no, im not wrong, or condescending, because i dont need to be psychic to get a general idea of what youre doing, theres only 2 real ways to do it.

    [quote:ll24n1v6]Simple situation: I posted an IDEA thread. What the hell does that have to do with "knowing all the problems"? LOL. What does it have to do with "problems" at all? This wasn't about problems, it's about ideas and that was pretty clear. You somehow completely misunderstood that, and now you're acting like an a-hole. I don't know what your issue is, but please go away and don't post to me anymore.

    what ideas did you post in the first place? the thread is called "3 things I'd like to see in future programs" seems awfully like a feature request. secondly the "problems" im talking about are the ones about the analog joystick that you were throwing around and that were the entire reason i made my posts here, what else would i be talking about? , but you wouldnt have noticed that seeing as you cut off the top of the quote i made that you were responding to taking it out of context, once again trying to make me seem like an arse

    [quote:ll24n1v6]What the hell are you talking about? Do you even know what you're talking about? LOL. And you're the one sitting here pretending as if you have more talent than even the people coding these sports games for big dev companies, lol. I mean the statement you made about that is laughable and you're delusional if you believe it, and I believe you do. So if you're that great and you know so well what mistakes they're making, why aren't you working for one of them? Huh? Yeah, exactly Mr. Know-it-all. So don't act like you know everything and have some psychic ability to know what someone is doing wrong in something you've never seen. That's beyond condescending, but I'm sure you'll reverse that and say it's my fault rather than yours, right?...

    i know the mistakes your making. and ive made those mistakes in the past, and run into the same roadblocks, and i know ways around them.

    Dont hold up these sports games programmers as gods, im pretty sure theyre just to lazy and rushed to find ways around the problems that persist through all the games, because it takes time, and money to do so. and programmers working for these big sport's games churning out companys dont give two shits about what they're doing, its just a job that they have to do every 6 months for the next release of a game almost exactly the same as the last. and they inevitably take shortcuts and use methods they've learned during this course of constantly remaking the same thing, regardless of how wrong or what control problems it may cause.


    I respectfully disagree with your view there. You can clearly see where I was attacked (you can see the actual post) and it was clearly an unprovoked attack (which you can also see). I displayed nothing outside of civility towards him until that attack.

    I don't come to argue and I have nothing more to say to him so it's dead issue as far as I'm concerned.

    like ive said before, i didn't attack you, just what you were saying, but for some reason you overreact on the internet. hardly something id expect from someone "whos the nicest guy in the world", seeing as people in real life actually have a tone of voice, cant be ignored and react much ruder than i have.

    also, stop acting as if your on a higher pedestal than everyone in everything you say, without anything to back it up. try to prove what your saying a little better, or explain what exactly the problem your having is, in greater detail, when you get angry at someone for assuming something. thats partly the reason i was so agressive with you. anyways i really couldnt give two shits more about this thread because i tried to offer help and you just acted like a baby about everything because of a slightly rude remark i made, and your lack of detail about the things i was explaining.

    Also, to be frank with you, nobody's interested in making sports related things here, because sports games are simply always based upon the same thing, the same games with the same rules, multiple teams that are pretty much all the same, and not a whole lot of people are interested in making something, thats essentially been remade every 6 months for the past 15 years, and hardly changed at all, regardless of how many people you claim to want this, i really doubt the people interested in making something innovative like a game, want to waste their time making something that is anything but, and can barely ever be because of the fact that a sport is a sport because of what it is ,its rules, and what it looks like, people are just being polite in not pointing it out, but i dont care anymore because you've been a total baby on the internet and i don't feel you deserve what little respect i had for you because you've tried to attack every single thing ive said to you. and excuse me for the giant run ons in here, but like i said, i don't give two shits about this anymore and this is my final post in this totally pointless thread.

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  • Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick! What the hell is going on in this thread? I was only gone for a few hours, people!

    Quazi, quit yer shit! You don't need the last word, you're just perpetuating an argument that has gone on much too long already. Just drop it, it's over. Do not make me BRING THE PAIN

    That goes for the rest of you, too. If anyone feels that they're being flamed then they should hit the Report button, not spark up a war. Yes Madster, your post was too late. MaxMan, if someone is pissing you off then please refrain from retaliation. LmK... just... I don't know, put down the keyboard for two and a half minutes.

    I swear, if the next post is anything but civil then by God I will smack someone.

    Anyway, you people are all missing the most important problem with this thread:

    ...mute point...


  • This is the line


    Cross it at your own risk

  • *tiptoes over the line*

  • *backflips*

  • Some comments from my point of view:

    About football games: Honestly speaking I wouldn't say Construct is even the right tool for them. Construct is primarily a 2D game development software, whereas if you want a realistic American football simulation you'd have to have a 3D game, really. So in my honest opinion, no 2D game creator would really fit your need if you want to bring something new to the field compared to what the commercial 3D alternatives offer at the moment.

    About visual novel / interactive fiction type games: I wouldn't recommend Construct for these either. You're better off using something like Ren'Py. It involves scripting, but it's pretty darn simple to learn, and it's cross-platform compatible (unlike Construct by nature). There was also some free visual creator for visual novels I read about quite a while ago but I totally forgot its name. It looked very promising, though, and free. Both these two are specifically aimed at creating visual novels and if that's what you want to do you're better off using these than Construct. They're better tools for this purpose! Of course you still can make a visual novel with Construct, and it'd be pretty simple to pull off too - if you want to venture into this area, I recommend using the Spritefont object for versatile text stuff.

    Also honestly speaking I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "A Web-style creation system with simple-to-program randomization". Make some sort of mockup next time, please, to save people from being confused about what you mean.

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