What payment option would you like to see for Construct 3?

I mentioned this in the past, and I think it is worth mentioning again since nobody seems to talk about it.. The majority of new users won't spend the entirety of the year using Construct3. They will probably only use it a few months until either a couple things happen; they become tired or frustrated with their game/project, they become distracted by other things in life. There will be several months where they don't use it at all. Several months where they can't make what they want because they need to learn how to use the editor properly, and still it will take several months/years to do things optimally if they even understand how to manage a project effectively at that point. At the end of their first year subscription, I don't see these people resubscribing. But maybe in Scirra's eyes at least they paid for one. However, I don't think these users will be entirely trusting to dish out $100 for the first year without first testing it adequately, and from my impression the free version is very limited. Sure, they could use C2 instead to get a feel, but generally speaking people want to use the latest version and probably won't even consider using C2 if they see that there is C3 which is being touted as being better.

So I understand why Scirra wouldn't want to allow monthly subscriptions for new users, because that gives those users a way out if they aren't satisfied after the first month or two- which is a realistic expectation I have considering my own experiences in the beginning. I just don't see how this model helps retain users. It just seems like it will push away people in my opinion.

At least with models where you pay once, you receive software you can use at your convenience and can work at your own pace regardless of whether you take several months off you don't feel penalized for it.

Scirra can argue that the reliance on browsers forces having to do maintenance, etc, and charging for keeping everything working with the changing browser vendors. Will these users understand that? I doubt this is something they would consider in their purchase (probably not the primary consideration), and if anything it might be more of a deterrent if they do because they'd realize that things can change whenever a browser updates.

But maybe that will improve over time? If it does then why the subscription model? If it improves, then maintenance will become lighter for Scirra. The subscription kind of gives the impression that the stability will never improve.

[quote:2otb9n5v]As with C2, if someone complains about a bug in an old version, they are told they need to update first, which in this case would mean re-subscribing - which to me is fair enough, as one of the benefits of subscription is updates and bug fixes.

If a breaking change is implemented by Chrome, the old version could be rendered completely useless. So what's the point? I can imagine the uproar from that, bad publicity and a bad taste left in everyone's mouth.

[quote:38mi2na3] I don't think these users will be entirely trusting to dish out $100 for the first year without first testing it adequately, and from my impression the free version is very limited

We were surprised when we looked at our data at how many impulse purchases we see for Construct 2 (people who seem to buy and only use for a short period of time).

[quote:3vafh3hx] I don't think these users will be entirely trusting to dish out $100 for the first year without first testing it adequately, and from my impression the free version is very limited

We were surprised when we looked at our data at how many impulse purchases we see for Construct 2 (people who seem to buy and only use for a short period of time).

So what will you do to curb this pattern? For these users, the subscription is more incentive to never return after having fallen off the wagon for a while. I know that in the beginning of my use of C2, I spent long periods without using C2, and in the case of C3 I would feel penalized for life's unpredictability.

We were surprised when we looked at our data at how many impulse purchases we see for Construct 2 (people who seem to buy and only use for a short period of time).

Previously with Construct 2, these users didn't really have any impact on what we do. They are happy to pay us, use it for a brief while then move on for whatever reason (we think it was mainly impulse purchasing - I've bought AAA games on Steam before that I've barely played, guessing it's the same sort of behaviour).

With Construct 3, we're wanting to keep and engage users more, we're obviously incentivised to do so.

The shift from Construct 2 to Construct 3 will force us to invest more in retention rather than purely attracting new customers. This can come in lots of forms, better learning resources, better community engagement, free asset packs/game templates etc etc. I know I would say this, but even if you're cynical about the whole subscription thing that has to be a positive for customers.

The fact is we feel the market is fairly saturated, and we're relying on a steady flow of new customers. Nothing wrong with this, but we have bigger plans. We feel adjusting our revenue model is our best shot at achieving those plans.

Currently due to new hires, expenditures etc we're running marginally profitable/break even. This is fine as we're on the cusp of a new product launch (a lot of companies lose money in this period!) but we've pretty much hit the ceiling of how far we can grow the Scirra team with our current revenue levels.

Tom, I don't really understand how those would help retention for C3 more than C2 considering you have those already; Better learning resources would be what? Their are already plenty of people providing tutorials as well as responding to questions users have. What would you consider a better resource than this?

Better community engagement? There is already a very active community of users- how do you plan to force people to engage more than they already are- seems like you'd have to somehow give them more time to do it, or make it easier, but I don't see how this is possible to do in any significant fashion, unless you plan to have some live support system, but I'm skeptical of whether that would have a substantial effect.

Free asset packs and game templates.. Users already make these, so I don't see how this improves anything for C3. You might say that the subscription helps you make official asset packs, but users would rather pay someone to make exactly what they need personally instead of have to rely on assets that are general and for use by anyone, causing all games to look the same.

[quote:1pr8ghu8]Better learning resources would be what? Their are already plenty of people providing tutorials as well as responding to questions users have. What would you consider a better resource than this?

Better tutorial/manual systems, better language capabilities. More official tutorials. etc.

[quote:1pr8ghu8]Better community engagement? There is already a very active community of users- how do you plan to force people to engage more than they already are- seems like you'd have to somehow give them more time to do it, or make it easier

You misunderstand me, I mean we engage better. One example would might be a regular schedule of game jams and competitions. Ashley's already making progress in better engagement with a proper suggestions platform as another example.

[quote:1pr8ghu8]Free asset packs and game templates.. Users already make these, so I don't see how this improves anything for C3.

People love the 3 games we've included with Construct 3 so far (there's another on the way).

[quote:1pr8ghu8]but users would rather pay someone to make exactly what they need personally instead of have to rely on assets that are general and for use by anyone

Sounds like that's what you want, not what users generally want.

Note I used the word "better". We can always improve in all these areas. I don't really understand what you don't get about that?

[quote:3mhrvkxp]As with C2, if someone complains about a bug in an old version, they are told they need to update first, which in this case would mean re-subscribing - which to me is fair enough, as one of the benefits of subscription is updates and bug fixes.

If a breaking change is implemented by Chrome, the old version could be rendered completely useless. So what's the point? I can imagine the uproar from that, bad publicity and a bad taste left in everyone's mouth.

I was referring to the stand alone version of C3.

Are you saying the stand alone version will use and be reliant on the current Chrome version rather than be a self contained package?

I mentioned this in the past, and I think it is worth mentioning again since nobody seems to talk about it.. The majority of new users won't spend the entirety of the year using Construct3. They will probably only use it a few months until either a couple things happen; they become tired or frustrated with their game/project, they become distracted by other things in life. There will be several months where they don't use it at all.

That's one of the reasons I was advocating the option to suspend your subscription, so you could put your subscription on hold for several months if you know you're not going to use it, with this option limited to a few times per subscription so it's not abused.

[quote:3sj5jcf0]Better learning resources would be what? Their are already plenty of people providing tutorials as well as responding to questions users have. What would you consider a better resource than this?

Better tutorial/manual systems, better language capabilities. More official tutorials. etc.

[quote:3sj5jcf0]Better community engagement? There is already a very active community of users- how do you plan to force people to engage more than they already are- seems like you'd have to somehow give them more time to do it, or make it easier

You misunderstand me, I mean we engage better. One example would might be a regular schedule of game jams and competitions. Ashley's already making progress in better engagement with a proper suggestions platform as another example.

[quote:3sj5jcf0]Free asset packs and game templates.. Users already make these, so I don't see how this improves anything for C3.

People love the 3 games we've included with Construct 3 so far (there's another on the way).

[quote:3sj5jcf0]but users would rather pay someone to make exactly what they need personally instead of have to rely on assets that are general and for use by anyone

Sounds like that's what you want, not what users generally want.

Note I used the word "better". We can always improve in all these areas. I don't really understand what you don't get about that?

But you said these are to help with retention- how does all this help with retention? How do these make people feel more inclined to subscribe?

The other languages might introduce it to more people, but that doesn't address retention.

I don't think a lack of game jams is a reason why people stopped using C2. In fact, when there were any, there was a lot of criticism the community had over it.

People may have loved the 3 games you included, but how does that help retention?

If you ask a person whether they want custom assets for their game that fit specifically for their use or a copy of assets everyone else is using, people will choose the custom ones because they suit their game more closely.

Sure it is nice to have some assets to use if you don't have any, but there are a ton of resources online that already provide them, so I don't see how this helps improve retention compared to C2.

My gosh .... sounds like some of these hobbyist game developers are actually professional marketeers ....

But you said these are to help with retention- how does all this help with retention? How do these make people feel more inclined to subscribe?

Retention is for currently subscribed people. Not sure why you don't get why all those things wouldn't help with retention.

The other languages might introduce it to more people, but that doesn't address retention.

Yes it would, people native in other languages with be better supported and engaged.

I don't think a lack of game jams is a reason why people stopped using C2. In fact, when there were any, there was a lot of criticism the community had over it.

Why are you taking each thing I said as an absolute? It's all part of a bigger picture.

People may have loved the 3 games you included, but how does that help retention?

New games/assets being given for free would help with retention. If you don't see that, then it's probably simply because it's not what you're interested in.

If you ask a person whether they want custom assets for their game that fit specifically for their use or a copy of assets everyone else is using, people will choose the custom ones because they suit their game more closely.

Good observation I guess, not sure how it's at all relevant. We obviously can't create custom assets for everyone. Or am I misunderstanding your point?

Let me ask you a a question now, how would you improve retention of users?

Are you saying the stand alone version will use and be reliant on the current Chrome version rather than be a self contained package?

No sorry, I mispoke. It could be in a self contained package.

[quote:2tkjawlq]That's one of the reasons I was advocating the option to suspend your subscription, so you could put your subscription on hold for several months if you know you're not going to use it, with this option limited to a few times per subscription so it's not abused.

That is an interesting idea I will raise with everyone when we next discuss options.

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> Are you saying the stand alone version will use and be reliant on the current Chrome version rather than be a self contained package?

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No sorry, I mispoke. It could be in a self contained package.

Thanks for the clarification, you had me slightly worried there for a second.

[quote:2izhrmb0]That's one of the reasons I was advocating the option to suspend your subscription, so you could put your subscription on hold for several months if you know you're not going to use it, with this option limited to a few times per subscription so it's not abused.

That is an interesting idea I will raise with everyone when we next discuss options.

Thanks for considering the suggestion. I know you can't include everything everyone suggests, so I appreciate your willingness to discuss it with the team.

Tom, It just seems odd that you would use those points in response to the question of how to retain users considering the change to a subscription model. A subscription model might allow you to handle those points, but were the lack of those things the reasons people were not retained with C2- I don't believe they are.

When I speak of retention, I am considering the people who chose not to continue using the product, because if you want to address how to retain more that seems like an important part of the equation.

What evidence do you have that shows that people want to pay Scirra for official game assets/tutorials/gamejams? My understanding is that people want to pay Scirra for a game editor that allows them to make games. I want to be confident that my money is going towards that- not assets that I don't need or gamejams that I won't participate in.

I'm just trying to get a point across here- about how these choices appear to distance people from ever wanting to return.

I'm even more concerned now, based on your response- because I now feel like Scirra is focusing on other things outside the scope of developing a game making tool. It makes me feel less confident in where you are heading.