It is good time to make the Construct great again

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  • I kind of agree with your point, but I don't necessarily agree it's down to our poor marketing - it's mainly that there's a contradiction in the messaging. Our main feature has always been that you don't need to know programming and can use event blocks as an alternative to coding, but by saying how easy it is, some people assume it's not an advanced tool, even though it is. If we say how advanced a tool it is, some people will assume it's not an easy-to-use tool, which would affect our core appeal. So we tend to focus on highlighting the easy-to-use aspect.

    We do try to get this all across though - take a look at our features page: it highlights "No programming required", but does also allude to its power:

    Construct lets you have it both ways: beginner friendly blocks, all the way up to a full coding editor.

    Under the hood is an incredibly powerful and versatile engine with outstanding performance. It’s perfectly capable of running vast and intensive games smoothly and efficiently.

    Packed with tools ... There are genuinely too many features in Construct to reasonably list here. Here’s just a few more things Construct has and there's a lot more to discover on your journey.

    We also emphasize that JavaScript is an industry-standard language that you can get a job in - IMO a huge advantage over using tool-specific languages like GML or GDScript:

    Other engines use proprietary programming languages that lock you into their ecosystems. Construct uses Javascript which is one of the most popular programming languages in the world.

    Learn real-world transferable skills and level yourself up with Javascript.

    I think possibly another thing working against us is people don't take browser-based software that seriously, even though it can far outperform competitors. One of our goals is to change that perspective!

    I guess we could do more to emphasize the advanced capabilities of Construct, especially now there's things like the C++ extension SDK for advanced desktop integration. But I fear that the more we do that, the more we might scare off beginners. I'm sure there's a balance to be found, but it's tricky to get it just right.

  • Hey, I'm a completely new user of C3, and here are my two cents.

    First of all C3 is up against engines like GDevelop, which I initially got started with. They might not have the same amount of features, but they offer unlimited events for free when developing, and they even offer some free cloud builds. They also have amazing up-to-date high quality tutorials on YouTube that anyone can watch. This is a huge thing for people who are just starting out. And it draws in a lot of people. Not to mention that they do regular game jams, where users can win subscriptions to their game engine. This is a great way to get marketing content for your engine.

    Secondly, even though C3 works fine on larger mobile devices, there are no Android and iOS apps for it. You're missing out on a huge ecosystem of young developers.

    Finally, the starting price is very steep. Maybe there could be a more limited cheaper version to get started with? A lot of younger people don't have $25 to blow per month on a game engine when there are so many free alternatives. And paying $129 up front is a big ask. GDevelop starts at $5 per month.

    PS: A lot of people, especially younger ones, hang out on Discord. I don't think C3 has any official presence there. There's the Construct Community server, but I don't see it marketed anywhere. Maybe I'm wrong. But it was hard to find it for me.

    Edit> Resubmitting the post to make some edits, since there appears to be no edit functionality.

  • C3 is not FREE. That is the only "problem".

    No amount of clever marketing, learning material or whatever you can think about can get around that.

    The fact that we are even in the same conversation as multi million dollar corporations that are willing to bleed cash for decades in order to corner the market is commendable!

  • My 2 cents is that

    a) as Ashley said, people are sceptical of Browser-based software and don't value it as much as desktop software (kinda like mobile apps that can't ask for the same price with same functionality as desktop apps)

    b) there's a certain subscription fatigue in the marketplace in general (look at Streaming services, etc.) I'm sure Scirra will argue strongly against it but they have to be really careful to not outprice themselves out of reach of their target audience. Sure, Game Maker etc. has subscriptions too but they have a bigger brand, more hit games to back themselves up, they promise you exports to consoles (which even then isn't as easy as they make it seem), etc. I don't know however, if you'd have substantially more users when charging $79 per year vs $130 and the danger could be that you lower the price but don't gain any users which would be basically harmful to the company.

    c) The No-Code aspect CAN be seen as something that will hold you back. I also think it's much less of a sales argument than people think because most beginners still flock to Godot now, which is using a Scripting Language etc. Instead of Ease of Use i'd rather focus on emphasizing SPEED of use. Meaning Construct is the only Game Engine that let's you make projects almost at the speed of thought thanks to its revolutionary approach to visual scripting. There i'd rather compare the event sheet system to the more common node based structures that we see, that lead to quite unwieldly results.

    Some more random thoughts:

    Personally i don't think there's anything wrong in having tools that are more suited for smaller projects at all. I mean it becomes more and more clear nowadays that there's actually a DEMAND for smaller games, because of the overabundance of offerings. People simply don't have time to play every 200 hour AAA game anymore and more often than not, they're actively looking for something that will keep them entertained on a rainy sunday afternoon.

    I think Scirra could probably think about doing more sales promotions. Stuff like get the first three Months for 50% off or something like that. Just to get people to sign up and hopefully convince them enough so they stay on.

    I'd also forget about all the petty "We're better than GML" stuff because the average user who'd use either engine really doesn't care much about that. Also you can get onto thin ice very quickly. These kind of posts were never well received either and don't come across as very self confident from Scirra's side.

    I'd rather always focus on the vision for the end user. Know their dream, i.e. creating your first game from your bedroom but no idea where to start and sell them the solution to their problem. Know what values the brand stands for (making games should be accessible) and hammer that home. Simply JavaScript > GML won't inspire anyone but being the number one address to put people on their path of game development will.

    I think if Scirra works on their storytelling a bit and caters their marketing activities (and website) a bit more towards that it would definitely help. I agree however that recommendations will always work best but even those can be much more amplified. Instead of weird spinning cubes on the homepage, why not have some quotes by people who actually made and published games with the engine and what they love about it?

    Self Promotion is always the hardest which is why even ad agencies often get outside partners for their own marketing because an outside view always helps. I think maybe investing in some consulting, even if it's just a workshop or something with the whole Scirra Team would be something to think about. Just to get an evaluation of the website, the social media strategies, the sales channels, etc.

  • Price aside, the free version feels like it could benefit from easing up, just a bit, not enough where someone can make a fully-featured game, but enough that you could get somewhat far and then need to subscribe.

    Events are tricky, I think a limit is a good idea, but maybe a bit higher for logged in users. Sure, you could say "ah then they should learn to utilise loops and such to keep event count down", but maybe people won't think that and just abandon when they hit limits.

    There's an effect limit of 2. Just 2, for the entire project! Gives you a quick taste but doesn't let you make a small effect system, could add blur horiz and blur vert and you've reached the limit. Maybe a change to this, maybe 2 per object, maybe a global limit of 6 - sometimes combining effects is quite important.

    Remote preview is restricted, perhaps this could be unrestricted for logged-in users, as its quite exciting to preview on mobile and such. Could say that people could open on their phone and test, but seeing popup is just another "uhhg" moment if testing on a desktop.

    I guess my thought process is trying to find a way to get people using C3 a lot and getting quite familiar, without hitting restriction popup and such as easily. Then it's like "I've spent few hours and just hit a restriction, I really dig this, let's sub" rather than "ahh man I've hit a restriction multiple times and it's been 20 mins".

    Scirra would have more useful data on all this so I imagine they know whether popups on free version causes the person to quit suddenly or something. But just some thoughts.

    The example page is definitely amazing, even on free version, you can still open anything to see what sorts of things you could make with C3. Maybe a good "tech demo" kinda like kiwi story but does some crazy showcase of everything (physics, effects, etc) kinda like how half life 2 had that map they showed at E3 showing off essentially EVERYTHING that can be done in one small sweet package. The examples definitely do this, maybe even a highlight of the very impressive ones for free users to be easier, but a self-contained project with everything could be great!

    EDIT: Infact, when I open C3, I see first person shooter, cave bridge, and challenge room, none have touch controls and don't say to flip to landscape. Why not have these update to have this? The cave bridge is an excellent demonstration of how beautiful C3 stuff can look! But all in all, if free version always presented a wonderful tech demo example that works on touch, then even people casually browsing on their phones could go into the editor and immediately preview a beautiful professional-looking project.

  • One thing that could help is highlighting the awesome examples on social. There are some really sweet examples that would catch people eye with some gifs and draw attention to the engine.

  • All points mentioned here are totally valid, however I have another to make...

    What C3 needs more than anything, is published games out in the wild.

    As someone that's used Construct since the Construct Classic days, I've routinely checked out other engines (as they all have shortcomings, and sometimes C3 hits me with a wall I can't work around), and the FIRST thing I ask myself when investigating any other engines is: what has been made with it?

    If I don't recognize the name of at least ONE game listed, generally I move on, not out of spite or anything, but out of a reaction of: it must not a capable tool, or no one else is using it either...

    Examples won't get anyone's attention, neither really will demos... only finished and sold games will, I'm afraid.

    While not aware of Scirra's financial situation, what would really help to ship games, would be to either offer or partner with a publishing service, especially if its capable of helping devs to completion, be it through direct tool support, project funding, distribution, etc...

    If there are few to no visible games in the wild, then the engine isn't visible either... and that sucks, because Construct 3 is awesome.

    Is the cost to entry high for young, new, solo devs? As someone in Canada, yes, I have to justify my monthly subscription to my wife every month, as C3 still has yet to bring in any revenue to our household to justify my continued use of it.

    Are there features that newcomers will be looking for that aren't in place yet? Of course there are. Whether or not those are in the pipeline or never intended is unknown, but they will be viewed as "currently missing".

    Does that mean the tool is no good? Absolutely not, C3 is fantastic. But no one knows about it when there are no tangible and visible projects made with it. MIGHTY GOOSE is probably the most well-known/obvious title that we can all point to, which is a great start, but there needs to be more.

    So my point is, whatever can facilitate more finished games of quality and polish, getting out the door, and making a little money, in app-stores, e-shops, Steam, Switch, PlayStation Store, Xbox, whatever, is what NEEDS to happen.

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  • Can anyone think of a single other subscription based engine that doesn't have a fully featured free version?

  • Its for kids because that is the priority scirra has taken with their product.

    Scalability issues and failure to add features for fear beginners would find it complicated... these are major barriers in my mind to any serious look at construct.

    Construct is great, so long as you are either making something simple or a prototype. But if you want to practice SOLID, you canʻt. If you code, you know, if you donʻt, you probably wonʻt.

    But anybody coming from unity to c2 is probably lacking a skill. Or they have the skills and want a speedier work environment for 2d, but then... enter point #1. If you canʻt scale, slapping down a lot of progress on day one is useless if you are having growing pains already on day 5.

    Every dev cycle I come back to construct, It has a nice IDE, and making games in it is fun... but each time I leave to finish in unity, frustrated with lack of event reusability, better abstract coding, efficient functions, etc...

    The moment you find yourself creating a tool to edit project files so you can more efficiently delete or copy variables... well...

    Also, and most importantly, if you are visual, but want to write good events, you need to use families... families all have the same icon in the event sheet, so now, that whole visual nature of events goes out the window..

  • Can anyone think of a single other subscription based engine that doesn't have a fully featured free version?

    Nope. I happily bought c2. I would have happily bought c3. But I will not happily shell out money on a monthly basis for a tool, especially when I donʻt use it every month.

  • I mean, everyone would rather not pay moneys, but with many hobbies (whether intending to go professional or remain as a hobby), they do often have a lot of costs to execute that hobby, be it materials or tools.

    Being software, from a buyers point-of-view, we have different expectations because "it's just code, can copy/paste software, why charge?" and "but software is always pay once, I wanna own it", and as devs, we have many choices that are absolutely free from costs, so we can draw comparisons between software. But from a companies point-of-view, unless the company is producing many different bits of software, then one sale doesn't seem like it will go far, would constantly need new people rather than commited people. Believe me I'd rather not pay monthly/yearly too, but it seems like a sustainable way for a company with few products to generate an income, thus giving them ability to make more updates and provide more services to us (e.g. Build server, support).

    I vaguely remember I once emailed Scirra asking if they would accept random donations of money, since I felt bad for paying £70 once then using the software for years - I got more hours out of C2 than video games! I wasn't well funded so wouldn't have been a huge donation, but yeah. Now regular payments for sub is like "ehh" BUT, it feels like the money is funding the software, which we do want to see grow and flourish - However, it does boost my expectations when there's issues though, like if editor goes down (as it rarely does, and offline mode often works for me), it instills rage in me like "I PAY YEARLY FOR THIS, IT HAS TO WORK", or a crash bug would be more annoying due to knowing I'm paying a sub. Even chrome being buggy made me internally blame C3 at first, like with the recent "status breakpoint" bug, but then realised I was wrong to assume.

  • Scalability issues and failure to add features for fear beginners would find it complicated... these are major barriers in my mind to any serious look at construct.

    It's only the marketing - there's lots of advanced features, be it javascript integration, multiplayer, encryption, translation, file system. Plenty of random hidden things, like the touch plugin has pressure sensitivity, worked on my old Note phone!

    Construct is great, so long as you are either making something simple or a prototype. But if you want to practice SOLID, you canʻt. If you code, you know, if you donʻt, you probably wonʻt.

    This would be same for any product, even GDevelop. You get so far until you need to understand loops, arrays, functions, etc. You can still achieve a lot without this, even if it means a beginner ends up copy pasting duplicate event blocks or something.

    Every dev cycle I come back to construct, It has a nice IDE, and making games in it is fun... but each time I leave to finish in unity, frustrated with lack of event reusability, better abstract coding, efficient functions, etc...

    I don't get this, event reusability can be achieved with functions/custom actions/event sheet includes. Functions seem efficient although there's that debate on the whole calling functions by name which is seen as finicky.

    The moment you find yourself creating a tool to edit project files so you can more efficiently delete or copy variables... well...

    This can be done just fine in the editor. It does react badly in one circumstance though, can't recall how but something to do with having multiple same-named local vars in a group or sub events.

    EDIT: Wait I misunderstood, yeah project file editing is basic, can't cut and paste rows in arrays and such so it's not the most powerful.

    Also, and most importantly, if you are visual, but want to write good events, you need to use families... families all have the same icon in the event sheet, so now, that whole visual nature of events goes out the window..

    100% agree and it drives me crazy, especially when you name families like "HUD_Camera", "HUD_Bars" and all you can see in event sheet is "HUD_..." unless you expand the view and such.

  • C3 is not FREE. That is the only "problem".

    No amount of clever marketing, learning material or whatever you can think about can get around that.

    Honestly, I don't get why the trial version of C3 is as limited as it is. There's a ton of great features that you can't even access from the trial version and the tiny limit on events doesn't make sense from my POV.

  • > C3 is not FREE. That is the only "problem".

    >

    > No amount of clever marketing, learning material or whatever you can think about can get around that.

    Honestly, I don't get why the trial version of C3 is as limited as it is. There's a ton of great features that you can't even access from the trial version and the tiny limit on events doesn't make sense from my POV.

    Yeah, imo this is a poor decision. 50 events is stupid small. 2 layers is stupid small. No families is basically broken. Canʻt even try javacript... As you said, limits on everything.

  • I don't understand it either.

    A free version doesn't cost Scirra much, but brings in lots of value, even free users help Scirra big time.

    Free users make the community bigger, a big community in itself is a valuable "feature" people look for when picking an engine, a bigger community creates more advertising for Construct, not only because it's bigger now, but because people can actually fully use it ...you could make a YouTube tutorial video about Construct 3 right now, and people can use it, but you always have to stay in the limited test version restrictions if you want to actually share it with the audience, so it results in only shallow tutorials because more in depth videos don't get many views. You can't say, hey let's use Construct 3 in this game jam, because everyone needs a sub otherwise you constantly run into limits. Even if you make that work, it's not fun and makes the first experience with Construct3 for these people annoying. People will be more relaxed about the subscription model because now they aren't forced to pay to get rid of annoying artificial limits, now they pay to gain access to additional services. There are so many more good reasons for it like more potential addon creators, free users simply getting used to the tool and thus preferring it, increasing the chance of becoming customers, YouTubers like Gamefromscratch would actually cover Construct, etc. etc.

    It obviously needs a strategy how to turn free users into paying customers, but I think Construct is already well equipped for that. There are many features that actually make sense to put behind a paywall, you should only be able to exporting to the Scirra Arcade with the free version. Remote preview should be possible in the free version but only a very limited amount of times to show what you miss out on. Maybe Scirra offers its own cloud service, and free users can only save in the cloud with up to xMB available space, paid can save where they want and get a bit of cloud storage with their sub, as well as all the export options, the cloud build and minification service. So basically charging for services and convenience.

    So I'm not advocating for an (mostly) unrestricted free version because I don't want to pay, I advocate for it because I don't want Construct to lose against GDevelop, I don't want to be the next Clickteam Fusion in a couple years.

    But I obviously can only judge this from the outside, I genuinely think it would be the right move, but I recognize that I don't have access to any data about subscriber counts, if they go up or down, Scirra's financial situation, their burn rate etc. and speculating about the right strategy is easy when it's not your company on the line.

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