I am a GameMaker user, I think that...

To put some perspective on the Flash/HTML5 thing..

...

But anyways, I hate webgames!

That was a good speech.. right until that last detail. <img src="smileys/smiley36.gif" border="0" align="middle" />

Hahah, I don't want to hate on anyone who cares about web games. It is the future and the direction most people are working in! But my ideas and thought processes do not lend themselves to the whole 'web' thing. Having people play a 50-100 megabyte game online (Especially one you sorta wanna just sell on steam or something) can be logistically obnoxious and lead to poor user experiences with load times and the like.

So I don't want to say web games are bad. I'm just saying that I don't have a horse in this race.

HTML5 is still developing, not as 100%.

Just wait to 2014, W3C says it's recommendation for the full specification.

I have read different opinions from different people in this thread. Thank you very much!

I think Flash better than HTML5, flash is faster, more powerful, more common, and supports 3D. But HTML are very slow and not powerful. And I think that the idea of ??HTML5 was a failure, flash is much better! And so we should not forget about Ekse, because it is the fastest exporter at the moment.

Comparing HTML5 to Flash seems a bit unfair to me. Flash has had time to evolve and reinvent itself many times over, whereas HTML5 is a new medium who has only just begun.

I've had the opportunity to work with Flash over the years in web development, and as much as I might love it, web design changes very quickly over time, and Adobe sure doesn't make Flash cheap, so I can't always stick to the same tools over time. (Unless I wanted to keep making websites with animated gifs a la 1996)

Tools are just that, tools, and the idea of a tool that lets me make something viewable on my desktop, netbook and cellphone, out of the box, is a pretty big one.

On topic with BoyHK, I think a few more exporters would definitely be awesome in the near future. Perhaps Android and IOS, since the mobile market is freaking expanding at a ridiculous rate.

>>Asley?>>> Vicu, today the browser you use has a much bigger effect on performance than your computer. If you're using IE9, FF6 or Chrome 14+, it should be really fast. Browsers before those don't use your hardware! Which browser did you test on?

I use Firefox 5.0. Now I installing FF6 and test in them) Thanks)

I think Construct 2 HTML5 & GM HTML5 are a big fail!

HTML5 WEBGL:

<img src="http://expert.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/quake-html5.jpg" border="0" />

Flahs UE3:

<img src="http://vl.kamibu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/flash3d.png" border="0" />

UnityFlash:

<img src="http://www.uraldev.ru/files/news/2011/09/Unity_engine1.jpg" border="0" />

IMHO

The examples you list Vicu are for creating 3d games mainly. And apart from WebGL (does need one for IE only I think), they need a plugin to run in the browser, which is a big plus point of HTML5. Also these do require you to know some scripting language at least.

2d still has a place, especially on the web and with mobiles. Construct 2 is the easiest and most accessible tool for that task, in my opinion. And doesn't require you to write a single line of code. A selling point of Construct has always been being a development tool for artists.

Also afaik Scirra plans on getting some of that WebGL magic into C2 with shader support.

I don't think C2 is a fail at all, but rather promising. Of course everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

^^Exactly, C2's been always focused on 2D. They've never wanted to compete with other 3d game making programs. If you like more creating 3d than 2d I suggest switching to those programs which support it natively. In CC and C2, it'll always be possible to make a 3d game, but with workarounds and much harder. On the other hand, I believe and wish for C2, to become the best tool for creating 2d games.

An interesting article on some developments with flash that some might be interested in.

epicgames.com/community/2011/10/unreal-engine-3-support-for-adobe-flash-player-announced

I believe they all have their uses and place.

To illustrate, while an F1 race car is fast, it's useless in the city. You're better off riding around in a smart car. A Mercedes is an elegant car, but is useless in a desert environment. You really need to be on a camel.

HTML5 is another tool to add to your arsenal to get a job done and shipped. That is what really counts. If gaming is a hobby, then it may not even matter what you use.

As for 3d, it is intensive/extensive and takes massive amounts of time and resources that I believe most indie gamers just don't have. It's my viewpoint, that unless you have a phenomenal skillset/money and lots of luck, starting and completing a 3d title is very very difficult and slow. There are a lot of bodies along the way to shipping an indie created 3d title. If you can do it, then you are a rare specimen.

Stay nimble and do a 2D game is what I say. Get a sense of how much effort, time and sometimes money this stuff can take to produce, then try your hand at a 3d title.

Again, I think it all depends on what you are trying to do and the market you are attempting to capture with your game.

I think that's the most I've ever written in these forums.

...sip...

Well i have used Unity the free version and its brilliant for a free version but C & C2 are completely different products aiming at a very different market of game developers.

I have also used Game Maker and Multimedia fusion which both have their own praises, but the Cost of MMF 2 is ridiculous for the CASUAL game maker like me who loves messing around and just enjoys creating bits and bobs here and there, But C2 will also have great appeal to more serious game makers out there. This is where i believe the pricing for this product is the BEST i have ever seen.

I own alot of game making software from DBPRO to FPS Creator as i'm a game making tool junkie.

So back to Flash, Java, WEBGL and god knows how many others oh Silverlight, Adobe Air any other to compair to... Oh yeh Game Maker... MMF2, Unity, Blitz Basic and 3D, Oh Torque 2D and 3D.. what i'm saying is it don't really matter, HTML5 is new and will probably be around for another 10 years getting better as it goes along, And Gaming online in web pages is getting BIGGER and BIGGER every minute so thanks Scirra for this dam fine product, i'm glad i got in at the beginning and am excited at the future for this product.

Wether you add EXE,FLASH,JAVA or what ever else you add as long as it does what it says it does, and makes games to play on web browsers i don't care whats going on behind the code whatever language it uses, i want simple point and click to create games and this does that.

BRILLANT is all i can say...

phew rant over :)

P.S.

Also places like Facebook have made 2D web Browser games quite popular..

Dear community!

For me I can say, that CC and C2 are kick ass tools for making games. In my time as 2D/3D-Designer I've learned one very important thing .. not the tool makes the product .. for example .. there are artists who are doing things in paint I couldn't do with a 3D program ..

I like to program my self a few little tools and minigames (pong / anscii-games) but even the thought of doing a whole game just by typing and so ... thanks, no =D ..

But back to topic .. I personally have no experience with FLASH, the only thing I know is that action script is nothing I would like to learn and I think, that the whole HTML5 will become really big ..

The opinions red here are very interesting and I liked to read em. What I dislike is the 3D-examples ... I mean .. c'mon .. you can't show 3D-Pics to diss a 2D-Gamemaker .. it's like posting awesome 3D art in a Photoshop board and dissing Photoshop ..

Best regards

Patrick

Flash isn't going to get replaced by HTML5 (anytime soon anyway). A lot for people still use it. Games, animation, websites, etc. Sure, maybe more indie developers will use for the Android market, but I don't see it going past that. Really don't see a lot of big time developers dipping in the Android market.

In my day job I am a website programmer. Php and MySQL mainly. CSS and Javascript also.

As far as I'm concerned, flash is a dying technology and for very good reasons such as:

1. File bloat

2. Insane coding concepts.

3. Apple products (iphone, ipadetc) don't support flash

While HTML5 is young, most people that you care about, have an upgraded browser.

My feeling is that smart phones will take over the world for most users.

For this reason coding in software that exports to HTML5 is not a silly idea.

If you have an issue with HTML5 export - go for one of the other game making programs on the market.

After researching quite a number of game maker tools (I even emailed the dev's of several indie games) I settled on Construct2 for these reasons:

1. It exports to HTML5 natively

2. HTML5 export is a near step to iphone and android export

3. I don't have the time to learn a 3D game making program

4. I can't be bothered to custom code - I do that enough in my day job. (after all if you are custom coding then why do you have an engine?)