(r252) Event dialogs are opening with a delay on Windows 10

    Thanks, digitalsoapbox for the support. Which windows version and build are you using?

    In my case "Don't show unique icons" option reduces the lag significantly. But this can not be considered a solution or workaround, as not having unique icons HUGELY affects the usability.

    Is anyone wants to test if your system is affected, here is the batch script that I used.

    Download this capx, create a text file in the same folder, name it RunAgain.bat :

    start test_lagging_win10.capx
    timeout /t 40
    taskkill /IM Construct2.exe
    timeout /t 10
    RunAgain.bat
    [/code:1g5bkakw]
    
    Run the bat file. Take a note how many seconds does it take for C2 software to open. Leave the script running and go have some lunch or dinner 
    Check again in 30-60 minutes to see if C2 startup time has increased. And then test if there are any lags with opening event dialogs, context menus, sprite editor etc., similar to this [url=https://youtu.be/8thpozIBnUU]video[/url].
    

    My PCs are on this build:

    October 10, 2017—KB4041676 (OS Build 15063.674)

    It's stable and since I need to use them for work, I don't have these PCs receiving or installing any updates (if it can run 3DSMAX, Photoshop, After Effects, various mocap software and more it should definitely be able to run C2). This would be before the patches that are supposedly causing the issue. I've also reported this before but based on Ashley's reply, he's either not seen this info (though I have mentioned multiple times in other threads on this issue that I have not installed the updates the issues are allegedly cause by), but that's unlikely as he commented on one of the previous mentions in another thread.

    I've also noticed this problem recently. I attributed it to a windows update since it started happening and I hadn't updated C2 for awhile. However, it does seem to be a C2 issue because I run Unity, 3D Studio Max, and Photoshop and none of them have similar lag.

    Posting this detailed analysis on behalf of another Construct 2 user:

    ====================

    I ran a few test specifically for this issue. Here are some of my findings. Please note, these are not concrete and should not be used to say what exactly the cause is. yet, they are meant to aid in trying to determine what the issue is and how to mitigate it. This is not to say the issue is with Windows, Construct, or a graphics driver but yet to show there is some sort of issue. What the root cause is, I am not sure. What the fix is. I am not sure. Who is responsible to fix it, I am not sure. But what I do know, is there is an issue and it is out of the users power to find the root cause and how to mitigate the issue. This is by Constructs design (closed source, no debug tools, no advanced settings that can change). As such, Scirra would have to step in to help, in order to move forward towards a fix.

    Software is also complex, so I would doubt it is one issue specifically but a combination of things (ie: it very well could be Construct because of X, Windows because of Y, and graphics because of Z. As well, there are probably endless solutions too). I only say this (even though it really should not need to be said) so there is no misinterpretation and no one can say X, Y, or Z is to blame. As I will state later in this post, it is too early to even try to pass blame. One simply cannot say "It is categorically windows" at this stage of this bug. This would be like me blaming my power supply is at fault without solid evidence and ordering a new one for my computer because it won't turn on, without checking the power cable, all plugs are attached, and even the breaker is not tripped. Until then, it is wrong to state the power supply is what needs to be replaced and is a costly mistake. That is what I am looking for as a first step, the why. Not who is to blame, but why is this happening. Without that, no solution can be found at all.

    Anyways,

    Captured a video of this laggy issue today:

    https://imgur.com/a/OX7ZA

    You will notice a couple things:

    • Drawing the opened image is so slow, you can see the background "wave" in
    • It takes the image toolbar a bit to load
    • The properties of the object, actually waits for the image toolbar to load before the properties can load (which has a delay also)

    I also ran fresh installs of 2 Windows Machines:

    Windows 10 version 1511 build 10586.494 (roughly July 2016 build, so over 2 years ago)

    Windows 8.1 Pro, version 6.3 build 9600 (almost 4 years ago).

    Important to note, when I in the following mention Windows 10 (W10) or Windows 8.1 (W8) I am not implying this exist for every machine. I am only stating this is what I had observed on my machine.

    • W8 was a lot more snappy. Things felt quicker. in general
    • W10 suffered many slowdowns that W8 did not
    • Deselecting images was painfully slow in W10, pretty fast in W8
    • Switching tabs in W10 were laggy, freezing, and unreliable. Did not get this in W8
    • Creating new Objects was fast in W8 versus W10
    • Right clicking objects to remove them was painfully slow in W10, instant on W8
    • Having a large layout open, but inactive (working on another tab) made W10 super sluggish and laggy. Almost no effect in W8.

    Lastly, the object refresh Construct does was noticeably slower in W10. For example, when you delete an object you can visibly see the editor go through all remaining objects properties. I have no clue what this means, just something I noticed.

    In short, it appeared to me that anything related to objects, menus, and windows was much slower in W10 compared to W8. Sometimes, to the point of freezing in W10 compared to W8 being so fast, you cannot tell the machine had to do anything to load what you are seeing.

    This was tested on r250 and r232 (aug 2016 version). There was a bit of difference in W10. Some things were faster. some things were slower. but, it was no where near as reliable as running it on W8.

    For example, opening the image editor appeared faster, but deselecting was slower (when comparing r232 vs r250). I did not go too in-depth with this because there are too many factors for someone like me to really determine anything without proper tools.

    I do believe, solely based on this test:

    • One cannot say for sure windows update caused this. It is entirely possible, but not proven
    • It is safe to assume, meltdown is not the issue
    • It is safe to assume, a recent windows update is not the direct cause
    • There is a good chance it is isolated to Windows 10 (note: this is very different than saying Windows 10 caused it. I am simply stating it might be isolated to Windows 10, I am not implying what the cause is. This is needed to try and narrow down the root cause, instead of going on a wild goose chase. AKA, you don't need to waste time trying to debug Windows XP)
    • Not enough data is available to say if certain Windows Updates caused or improved Construct. It is entirely possible it plays a factor, but it would only be a piece of the puzzle at this point in time.
    • Not enough data is available to say for certain if certain Construct versions caused/fixed certain issues. Like Windows, it is a piece of the puzzle that is unknown. It is entirely possible and not off the table based solely on these test in this post.

    I believe there are some important steps to move forward:

    As a user:

    We can only really buy a different machine and hope it works or, move onto a different platform altogether. Construct is not open-source and provides absolutely no tools or settings for users to tinker with (ok, there are 1 or 2, but nothing like other software that allows users to tinker it specific to their machine).

    As the software maker:

    1) There is an issue, this needs to be recognized. It is not to simply say, x is at fault, or it is because of y. We are not there yet. Step 1 is to recognize some users are having issues.

    2) Now that the issue is recognized. Can you reproduce it? If yes, great, we can move onto 3. If no, then more investigation is needed. Until you can reproduce it, you cannot debug it and you cannot say which system(s) or parties are causing the issues.

    3) Now that it is known there is an issue and you can reproduce it, it is time to dive into the issue. Find out what the root cause(s) are. It is possible there are multiple, so one thing at a time might need to be tackled. For example, starting with why deselection takes so long.

    4) A root cause has been found. Now, how can it reasonably be fixed or made better. Can you make a work around, do you need to approach intel, microsoft, or some other party? Is it faster or more reasonable to do x or y. Or, is it looking to be absolutely impossible to fix at this point for various reasons.

    5) resolution. If it was fixed, horrah! If not, users need to be aware of the issue and what causes it.

    Just curious, is anyone using Windows graphics drivers?

    dop2000 - please do not post messages on behalf of other users. Some users may try to do that in an attempt to circumvent a ban.

    I am sick to death of explaining the third-party thing over and over. You can post 100 pages of posts, and it doesn't mean we're any more able to fix third-party issues. I know users don't care whose fault it is, but there are some types of issue that are not feasible to resolve by ourselves.

    Seriously, if you don't believe me, or you think this policy is unacceptable, go and use other software, where you will doubtless run in to similar issues or worse.

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    Ashley,

    Can you please give us all an official and definite answer - is Scirra planning to continue with efforts to reproduce, investigate and hopefully fix this problem? If yes, could you provide any ETA?

    Or have you marked it as "windows issue" and will not spend another minute working on it?

    In this case we are simply wasting our time here - collecting evidence, comparing windows versions, updates, hardware configurations etc.

    Based on the fact:

    • you said "Don't show unique icons" works around the issue completely, thereby providing a workaround;
    • "Don't show unique icons" works around an issue in Windows itself, thereby pointing to the issue being of third-party cause; and
    • rebooting also works around the problem (inconvenient perhaps but means you can still use C2)

    then this seems to have a relatively minor impact and points to a third-party issue beyond our control, which also appears to be infeasible to work around further at this point (since we have already worked around it with "Don't show unique icons" mode).

    Posting pages of arguments is also by far the biggest discouragement possible to investigating what appears to be a third-party bug. We sometimes go above and beyond the call of duty and try to fix/work around them anyway, to provide the best possible support for users. However arguing over this on the forums is a very effective way to make me think it's just a waste of my time and just leave it to the third party. If you want the best chance possible that this is actually investigated and worked on, don't do that.

    As I said in my second post, I don't believe there's anything further we can reasonably do about this. I'm basically leaving this issue open as a known issue, but if there is any more trolling over blame or explanation or unreasonable support expectations, I will close it right away. Like I said, if you think this is unreasonable, go and use other software, where you will doubtless run in to similar issues or worse.

    Thank you for the honest answer. I have a couple of remarks, hope you will not consider them "trolling".

    - you said "Don't show unique icons" works around the issue completely, thereby providing a workaround;

    "Don't show unique icons" is not a workaround. I would rather live with 10 seconds lag than without unique icons. When you're working on a big project, you have lots of objects with long names, and the list looks like this:

    ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa... ObjectNa...

    It takes ages to find the right object, as you need to click every one to see its full name. And it makes it much harder to read event sheets. So no, this is not a workaround, it's disabling a very important feature.

    And anyway, this only helped me, others say that event dialogs are still slow even without the unique icons.

    then this seems to have a relatively minor impact

    Trust me, it's not minor. Try using a software for 10 hours a day where almost every action causes a lag, sometimes small, sometime big and you'll understand.

    And I'm sick or rebooting my laptop...

    But most importantly - if you strongly believe that this is a windows issue, can you please log a bug report with Microsoft?

    I think it's your duty as a developer, since your software product is hitting this bug and affecting us, end users (who paid you money for said software product).

    It takes ages to find the right object, as you need to click every one to see its full name.

    Why not just type its name in the search field?

    I tried finding a public bug portal for Windows itself and I can't find one - the best I can find is https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/platform/bugs which doesn't appear to accept public submissions. So yeah, sometimes third parties make it hard to report issues too. Nothing new here either, it's been semi-impossible to report graphics driver bugs in the past too.

    You can always cut us out the process anyway: if a Windows Update makes C2 go slower, you can try and go to Microsoft about that directly. If you find any way to do that though, I'd be interested to know how...

    There's the "Get Help" app, and "Feedback Hub" over in the Windows start bar.

    Not that you would expect someone to answer questions like "Is anyone using Windows graphics drivers?".

    Why not just type its name in the search field?

    Because I don't remember the names of all hundreds of objects in my projects.

    I tried finding a public bug portal for Windows itself and I can't find one

    You can submit a bug using the Feedback Hub app:

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/p ... blggh4r32n

    I would also post it on the community board:

    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... windows_10

    You might get help from a Microsoft representative or some other developer with experience in this subject.

    You can always cut us out the process anyway: if a Windows Update makes C2 go slower, you can try and go to Microsoft about that directly. If you find any way to do that though, I'd be interested to know how...

    I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous suggestion. We (end users) have no knowledge of C2 internals and how it works with Windows API.

    If I tell Microsoft that my Construct 2 is slow on Windows 10, I can bet you anything that their answer would be to to contact the software developer.

    And by the way, I think we've established that it's not Windows Update that's causing this. If you don't have time to read previous pages - I tried uninstalling all updates including the Meltdown patch and it didn't help. Also several others reported having these problems on older versions of Windows 10 with disabled windows update.

    > You can always cut us out the process anyway: if a Windows Update makes C2 go slower, you can try and go to Microsoft about that directly. If you find any way to do that though, I'd be interested to know how...

    >

    I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous suggestion.

    It's not. If we can't reproduce the issue, it's better if you file it yourself. The first thing they'll ask is probably how to reproduce it and whether any variations help, and we can't answer that, only the affected users can. Microsoft engineers are pretty smart and can figure out the details from a high-level bug report. I've seen write-ups of far, far harder bugs that MS engineers figured out anyway. And then you don't need to sit around waiting to see what we'll do.

    Ashley,

    I seriously doubt Microsoft engineers can help with a third-party application they have never heard of.

    And there is no secret knowledge about this issue that I possess and you don't. C2 slows down over time or if launched many times. The result you can see on the video. That's pretty much it.

    If they ask something you don't know, you can always relay their question to this post, I'll be happy to help.

    Have you tried to reproduce the issue with that script I posted? It doesn't require your constant attention. Run it on a couple of Win 10 machines with different hardware/windows version, and check back an hour later.

    For me the script does its job perfectly, the result (slowness) after an hour of running the script is equal to using C2 normally for several days.

    hi everyone just one update from my side (sorry english)

    This morning i have updated my W10 notebook to lastest updates availables, since then im using C2 several hours and everithing is working fine.

    so i think those W10 updates they have nothing to see with the issues experienced some users reported around, maybe is just a coincidence but imho nothing to really correlated on the problem.

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