Poor C2 Editor Performance On Larger Projects

    Just tried the first post slow capx. I saw no real performance decrease.

    Note:

    Capx was slow to load(expected with size of assets).

    2008 Amd machine.

    Using pre Win 10 video driver due to Ms drivers not supporting my 1920x1080 screen for some reason.

    Just updated, sans 3rd party upgrades due to reason above.

    Kinda think its a W10 thing given my experience with shitty Windows generic drivers.

    newt

    In defense, the first .capx only contained few objects. The asset sizes don't matter, the object count is the one that shows the symptoms of the problem.

    The main purpose of the first .capx created by the OP was just to show the 1 sec. delay in updated Windows 10 devices.

    But since Ashley can't reproduce significant effects due to object count not being enough. I created the second .capx which you should have instead tried to find significant effects especially with newer devices.

    With the second .capx . It only has about 32x32 mostly similar images for about ~ 960+- objects. Only around 40+- objects have big mostly similar images. Which can be feasibly deleted in older devices but not in Windows 10 Creators Update + due to being nearly unusable.

    So it's clearly not a memory/cpu problem, considering in most high end devices tested, memory use never reached near maximum. And neither did the CPU/GPU. Not even close.

    Although, aside from Windows Update destroying drivers, custom manufacturer settings and applications that causes incompatibilities. It is surely not the main cause.

    Even though older devices with older OS experiences way better performance.

    It is still clear that older Windows OS devices also experience this C2 design flaw. Though not to the extend of 5 to 20 seconds delay or crashing for 2 reasons I've mentioned before, which are project sizes / object counts not meeting the reproduced requirement relative to the OS performance overhead.

    newt, try the one chadorireborn posted here:

    When you say no real performance issues, do dialogs pop instantly, or is there a delay (even if just 1 second)? When you click an action, count out 1 Mississippi, 2...On machines with no issue, I cannot even say "o" out loud (trying to say one) and the dialog pops. On machines with the issue, I easily hit 1 Mississippi. When the issue is worsened, such as in chadorireborn the project is completely unusable on machines that hit 1 second.

    chadorireborn's project works approximately the same

    Note:

    Major increase in loading time.

    Longer delay of loading dialogs, some taking longer to load due to what looks like having to populate the menu with objects(5 to 7 seconds).

    Once that dialog has finished(events dialog) additional ones are average load times.

    Regular dialogs taking no longer than 2 seconds.

    The layout editor is sluggish, but switching between them is the same as normal.

    These are all about what I experience in regular development on my older machine.

    Side note:

    C2 crashed when closing

    chadorireborn's project works approximately the same

    Note:

    Major increase in loading time.

    Longer delay of loading dialogs, some taking longer to load due to what looks like having to populate the menu with objects(5 to 7 seconds).

    Once that dialog has finished(events dialog) additional ones are average load times.

    Regular dialogs taking no longer than 2 seconds.

    The layout editor is sluggish, but switching between them is the same as normal.

    These are all about what I experience in regular development on my older machine.

    Side note:

    C2 crashed when closing

    It sounds like you are hitting the issue. Dialogs should not take 2 seconds, should be instant. This same project on my 6-year-old laptop, dialogs are instant.

    Same with the initial dialog on my end. The first time takes awhile, but after that, it should be instant. There should be no delay. Problem is, a lot of us are hitting an issue where every dialog is super slow - which shouldn't happen.

    chadorireborn's project works approximately the same

    Note:

    Major increase in loading time.

    Longer delay of loading dialogs, some taking longer to load due to what looks like having to populate the menu with objects(5 to 7 seconds).

    Once that dialog has finished(events dialog) additional ones are average load times.

    Regular dialogs taking no longer than 2 seconds.

    The layout editor is sluggish, but switching between them is the same as normal.

    These are all about what I experience in regular development on my older machine.

    Side note:

    C2 crashed when closing

    You are using an older machine. Of course it'll work better. As I've said. Thank you for testing it out.

    If you've tried a newer device and if possible with mid-end to high-end specs. You'll know things aren't working well anymore.

    Optimizations in C2 before doesn't work with new devices / OSs.

    Although, as you have witnessed yourself. Something is off even on older devices which proves our point. A normal 2D game creator shouldn't respond like that with little assets.

    Without even using the majority of resources available at it's disposal.

    Just a quick test report of the chadorireborn capx.

    • load time: ~3-4 minutes
    • edit action (first time): ~6 seconds
    • edit action (every next attempt or any action): ~2 seconds

    My Specs:

    • Win 10 pro, version 1703, OS Build 15063.850
    • laptop i7-3632QM, 16GB RAM, SSD drive, Intel HD Graphics 4000 + GeForce GT 635M

    Thank you, everyone, for your help in testing out this bug.

    Ashley, now that I have shown there is an ample number of people with this issue (I hit a 90+% of W10 users with this issue), can you please prioritize this, and at the very least give an ETA on when this will be looked at.

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    With a debug build I still can't reproduce any slowdown. The project is colossal and in my un-optimized build it took maybe 30 minutes to open. This suggests that anything that would be slow will be super-slow. However editing an action, or adding a new action, opens the dialog within around ~1 second.

    I have a fully-patched Windows 10 with the Fall Creator's Update - version 1709, build 16299.192. The CPU is an i7-6700K 4 GHz, but as I mentioned before, running a debug build of C2 with no optimisations usually more than cancels out any performance overhead from this high-end hardware. The fact the project took so ridiculously long to open is a good example of that.

    So I still can't reproduce any problem and I have no idea what might be happening. If the problem really is a recent Windows Update, then isn't the problem Microsoft's fault anyway? Is it fair to expect a small company to pick up the pieces of their mistake?

    With a debug build I still can't reproduce any slowdown. The project is colossal and in my un-optimized build it took maybe 30 minutes to open. This suggests that anything that would be slow will be super-slow. However editing an action, or adding a new action, opens the dialog within around ~1 second.

    I have a fully-patched Windows 10 with the Fall Creator's Update - version 1709, build 16299.192. The CPU is an i7-6700K 4 GHz, but as I mentioned before, running a debug build of C2 with no optimisations usually more than cancels out any performance overhead from this high-end hardware. The fact the project took so ridiculously long to open is a good example of that.

    So I still can't reproduce any problem and I have no idea what might be happening. If the problem really is a recent Windows Update, then isn't the problem Microsoft's fault anyway? Is it fair to expect a small company to pick up the pieces of their mistake?

    Ashley,

    If it is taking 1 second to open, you are hitting the issue. That IS the issue (one of them at least, but this is the one I reported). If you go use a W7 machine, the dialogs are instant. Have you tried a non debug version of C2 with that project? Have you tried a W7 machine to compare? Have you tried another W10 machine? What exactly have you tried. From your responses, it seems you have not really done much debugging. We have collected a lot of data on this, have you even gone over it? To be honest, I am rather surprised at the lack of debugging and willing to work with us here on your software, when so many people have shown they have this issue.

    On another note (this has been mentioned before, but I think you might have missed it given your response), this has nothing to due with how powerful (or lack of power) your machine has. I can load up my CPU to 100%, or 0% and I hit this issue. I hit this issue in a low-end and high-end VM. I hit this issue on a high-end and low-end computer. My computer can run multiple VM's and servers at once, but yet C2 fails to work well compared to a old 6 year old laptop.

    It is not reasonable to ask Microsoft. They won't touch it. Not unless you can prove it is their issue and specifically with what (none of us users can do this, only you). WE (as in the users) don't know the real cause. Only you can find out the cause because you won't give us any debugging tools. You are the one who can look into C2 to determine the cause. All we did is a bunch of legwork. Ultimately, you are the key here to find out the issues root cause.

    Let's be honest here for a minute. Your software is broken on numerous (in very high numbers) of W10 users. That is a whole platform for a major OS. That is C2's problem.

    Only people with larger projects such as chadorireborn and I are affected the most (the projects don't even need to be that big). But, the issue still affects everyone. That is a huge concern for anyone on C2 who wants to grow their projects. That is a huge turn-off for anyone to even think about using C2. This again, is C2's problem.

    We have done our best to show you the issue. Believe me, this issue is huge in terms of productivity. Even 1 second lost per dialog is days to weeks of effort over the months. Imagine for a second, every line of code you created for C3 had a 1-second delay to write (meaning 10 lines of code carried a 10 second delay in total before you can write another line). Now, picture having to restart your computer every half an hour because that 1 second turns into 4-5 seconds. How frustrating would that have been to write C3? Please, find out why it is taking 1 second, when W7 is instant. This is the root cause (again, you need to find out, we cannot find out for sure) of a much larger performance issue which leads to dialogs taking 5+ seconds, when W7 is instant.

    I have done my best. It is completely in your hands And to be completely honest, this thread should be used as a key factor for anyone who wants to use or buy Construct. It shows how willing you are to listen and to help users. As of right now, I have shown C2 is broken on a major platform, and you are unwilling to fix it. Please do your best to change that.

    I have this issue as well, particularly in adding, deleting or adjusting instance variables, it makes me wait for a second, and software acts like, it's like scanning all objects and properties, then gets what i want done. And i'm only about 20% done in the project - lord have mercy :>

    1 second to open a dialog seems usable. I cannot reproduce any issue with dialogs taking longer to start up, even with a setup that is so slow, the project takes 30 minutes to open.

    Windows 10 has been out for two and a half years, and Construct 2 has been out for over 6 years, and this issue only just got reported. The evidence in this thread seems to suggest a Windows Update caused the issue. If that is the cause, is it fair to ask us to pick up the pieces? The evidence so far seems to point more to an issue with Windows than C2. I don't have the tools to debug Windows either. Assuming the problem is in Windows itself, is it fair to pressure us in to fixing it?

    I have a powerful ultrabook with Windows 10 which I'm only using for about a month.

    C2 was working fine at first, but seems like it's getting slower and slower with each day. It sometimes takes about a minute to load, all dialogs are opening 1-2 seconds, interface elements are redrawing painfully slowly. And I'm not talking about big projects, it works like that even with blank projects. I don't know if windows updates are causing this or something else, but it's pretty annoying...

    And, like many others mentioned, there are no such issues on my two older laptops running Windows 8 and Windows 7.

    1 second to open a dialog seems usable. I cannot reproduce any issue with dialogs taking longer to start up, even with a setup that is so slow, the project takes 30 minutes to open.

    Windows 10 has been out for two and a half years, and Construct 2 has been out for over 6 years, and this issue only just got reported. The evidence in this thread seems to suggest a Windows Update caused the issue. If that is the cause, is it fair to ask us to pick up the pieces? The evidence so far seems to point more to an issue with Windows than C2. I don't have the tools to debug Windows either. Assuming the problem is in Windows itself, is it fair to pressure us in to fixing it?

    Sorry Ashley, but did you read my reply? I, in detail, responded to your concern here: https://www.scirra.com/forum/poor-c2-editor-performance-on-larger-projects_p1157406?#p1157406. Please give that a re-read as I had thought it was clear on why it is C2's issue and we need you to look into it further. Your response makes it sound like you have not listened to your users, and the mass amount of people reporting this issue. Also, just because it was just reported, does not mean it did not exist prior. I actually reported this months ago, and I have heard of another user reporting it months before that. I also found several users having the issue thinking it was normal. Chances are, it just went undetected until now. Fact is, there is an issue and you are now aware of it. It does not really matter at this point, how old C2 is, how old W10 is, or how long the bug has been out there for.

    Perhaps it is easier to have a skype meeting to discuss, so we are all onboard with what the issue is, and how to move forward? As BiffanyPFH just showed, he is just hitting the issue now and his project is nowheres near completion. That is a huge concern. You have a potentially very large issue and growing issue on your hands. That is not Microsofts problem at the end of the day, it is yours.

    To give you an example (a poor example, I am not good at these). Chrome updates all the time, and websites have to adapt to new standards. You hit this with C3, and will hit it in the future. Is it resonable to go to chrome and say "Sorry Google, your new update breaks my software, I don't want to keep up with the times, can you get rid of that new CSS standard you just implemented?" That is ignoring the fact that you have not proven this to be Microsofts issue, not C2. Even if it was Microsofts issue, it is your software affected and you have the ability to properly fix it, or create a workaround way before Microsoft can touch it. Software does this all the time. Many pieces of software, made many patches for W10. Each individual software, is responsible for how it runs and keeping up with the times. But like I said, first step is for you to properly prove it is Microsoft, and why (and in doing so, chances are you can find a solution on C2's end). So far, there is no such definitive proof. All we have shown is C2 is widespread broken on W10. There is no root cause determined yet. This is where you come in for support.

    I tried two more Windows 10 machines, one 1703, the other 1709, neither was affected. So I've tried three machines and none are more than 1 second to open a dialog with an absolutely colossal project. I thought everyone said Win7/Win8 weren't affected?

    Just suppose for a minute that it really is Microsoft's fault and a Windows update has gone out that is slowing down some proportion of machines out there, due to a change in the internals of how Windows works. What do you reasonably expect us to do about it?

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