NotionGames you're absolutely spot on. If Scirra addressed all of your concerns we'd all be in a better place, them included. It is very obvious that C3 is a passion project for the devs, it does not resemble what the community wants or needs. Their stubbornness is about to cost them a lot of customers as I think in this case they've really backed the wrong horse. I've lost a lot of faith in them as a company as they are either too stubborn or are actually out of touch with what we need. We get things like changes to the image editor, which is a total waste of time really when other very important things are neglected. C3 now has an identity crisis, is it for professionals or is it for amateurs? It is currently alienating both. Ash and Tom, you are great guys and I love your product and community - these aren't personal attacks, it's tough love. Please start listening to us. Since you've built up a big community if you want to keep it you should be listening rather than dictating. Conduct polls, ask us questions etc. Don't just rely on feedback from those who complain the loudest on the forums, actually ask the wider community.

Hopefully this is a good foundation for better things, but at the moment to be honest it feels (from a user perspective) that all this development time could have been spent building on what you already have and really making something refined and special rather than reinventing it so that it works in a browser. It all feels a bit one step forward, two steps backwards - but I guess it's still early days.

Looks pretty good, feels pretty good. But with such limitations what's the incentive to actually make anything to test out? I pretty much opened it up and said yep, this is C2 with a couple of nice useabilty tweaks that should have been in C2 from the start and a whole bunch of limitations. I'll give it another look later on. Expectations were already drastically lowered for this.

I'm glad the devs have noted that their marketing image might have missed the mark a bit in the past and are rectifying. I think Construct is a great tool and very powerful, but I kind of cringe when I visit the website a because it looks like it's marketed as a toy (although has improved somewhat - at one point it said something like "Make games effortlessly" which we all know can't really be done well and I think someone called them out on this). Early on many other devs using unity kind of scoffed or talked down to me a bit because of the image - that's fine if you're hoping to attract amateurs and hobbyists but you're obviously hoping to expand out from that. Someone on another thread suggested also changing the name from Construct 3 to something more descriptive eg Construct Cloud (I think was the example someone used). That seemed like a very good suggestion as it keeps your branding, but if you're hoping to attract a new crowd there isn't that psychological barrier of them having not used previous versions of the software and for current users it also clearly marks it as a very different product from Construct 2.

Subscriptions to get updates, new plugins and features on a regular basis is worth paying for BUT holding your projects hostage so they can not be edited if you don't pay a subscription ransom is unethical in my opinion.

Agree 100%, it is most certainly an ethical issue.

I think innovative is subjective. For the devs, it's a technical achievement to have built all this for the web. It is innovative in that sense, but for the end user whether or not it's built for the web is probably of little consequence. I actually think the fact that I can edit stuff on my mobile or tablet is very very cool - but most people won't care about that at all - and if I'm honest with myself, it's pretty impractical to do and probably almost useless for getting any real work done. Maybe in 5 years we'll see a lot of this stuff, but at the moment any advantages it may have don't seem to be obvious. One of the main things I see people saying is 'yeah that's cool, but we didn't actually ask for that feature' so it could just be a case of 'we don't want this because we're not ready for it'. I think perhaps it turned into too much of a passion project for the devs and they neglected to notice it wasn't actually what people wanted. That said though, I think if people are paying a subscription fee - they expect more than just access to a service, they expect the software to be dynamic and cutting edge - and really there's only so far you can go with 2d game dev.

It's only inevitable if people let it happen. There is certainly a worrying trend with larger corporations trying to push this as they can milk customers far more than with one off payments. Companies like Adobe and Autodesk were in a strong position to strongarm this as they are the industry leaders in their respective software fields with huge established customer bases that are completely reliant on their services. I was surprised when Scirra pulled this idea out as they are in no way the same position as those two business giants. If you look at other software industries - eg the pro audio scene, hardly anyone is using subscription services (and those that have tried - such as Roland with their cloud service have been heavily ridiculed and criticised) as they simply cannot justify the ongoing prices with their updates. I sincerely doubt that a 2d engine would be able to innovate fast enough to justify this either and everyone knows it. There's only so far you can go and it won't take long to hit the ceiling because we're almost there. In short though, people who are against systems like this should vote with their wallets. If we end up in a world full of subscriptions for everything it's because we've let it happen. There are good alternatives out there for Adobe and Autodesk products, and the same goes for game making software. Subs work fine for companies, but for individuals they are terrible. We're looking at a future of every service being a subscription, slowly draining our bank accounts from every direction, once it happens we'll be trapped. Don't let it happen.

signaljacker I think you misunderstood me.

I'm using Photoshop instead of Gimp because that's what I'm comfortable with, and it has all the features I need to work efficiently.

I'm using Maya instead of Blender because I know all the ins and outs of that software, and been using it for 15+ years.

I'm using afterEffects for Motion Graphics etc, because I'm comfortable with the software.

I'm using C2 for my hobby game making mostly because of the Event Sheet on my free time, because I can't stand to learning coding.

For me payment model is secondary, as long as I'm comfortable with the software. Apart from my employment, Graphic design is also my hobby on my spare time, but I still put up with a personal CC subscription, because I just can't force myself to use gimp at home, when I use photoshop at work.

Fair enough, I can relate to all of that. But it's not the payment model that bothers me, it's the artificial limitation of locking us out of our projects. The $99 a year is cheap enough, I don't have a problem paying it. But I think it's unnecessary to lock us out of our own work, it's a depressing trend and its absolutely awful for the preservation of digital media and it has really disappointed me that a company I thought was forward thinking is actually incredibly myopic to the needs/wants of its core audience. It may not bother you that your subscription model won't allow you to open your files after it ends and that's fair enough, but I think that in general people are really put off by it and I certainly am. If they'd fix that, then sign me up.

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> > For something I use almost daily. If someone offered me 2 option. 1st option is a hammer for one time payment, but it takes 30 seconds get one nail in. The other option is a rental nailgun that allows me to get to punch out 10 nails per minute in, I'll definitely choose the nailgun.

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> Good luck keeping your walls up when the nails magically vanish when you give the nailgun back!

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C'mon The walls and nails are still there. It's if i need to put more nails in the same pace I just rent again.

Professionally as a Graphic Designer / Animator / Video Editor, I'm using a lot of heavy duty software From Adobe and Autodesk like

Photoshop, Illustrator, AfterEffects, Premiere, Maya, etc etc. If I stop paying my projects don't magically disappear, I still have all the source files. Even if I unsub, If i ever need to change or edit something I just make sure my licence is active again. What's the biggie?

Well, for me it's more of a personal thing than a professional one. I'm in the same line of work as you, so as an artist and multimedia creator I'm sure you understand the divide between your professional work and your personal work. I would be willing to relinquish control of my professional work, but never my personal work - if that makes sense. I do game dev as a hobby, if I make money off it great, but it's not first and foremost my goal. I also don't think that these particular subscription systems are really good for us in the long run and that we should be fighting for something better rather than just 'taking it'. Often in my line of work I come across many print shops for instance who are still holding on to old software and won't update to creative cloud. It's pretty standard to export legacy files because of this. I also know of at least one big multinational corporation who I won't name who is still using Adobe CS6 products - there are probably many, I know of many graphic designers who are stubbornly holding on to software they spend several thousand dollars on several years ago. There are certainly both pros and cons of a subscription system. I'm not entirely against them, but I would ideally like something where both users and developers can be happy, and I think we both need to make compromises for that to happen.

For something I use almost daily. If someone offered me 2 option. 1st option is a hammer for one time payment, but it takes 30 seconds get one nail in. The other option is a rental nailgun that allows me to get to punch out 10 nails per minute in, I'll definitely choose the nailgun.

Good luck keeping your walls up when the nails magically vanish when you give the nailgun back!

Best of luck. I think many of your posts criticising the flaws in the subscription model were very valid. If such things aren't properly addressed many others will be joining you in a Construct free world. I don't want that, so please start listening to us Scirra.

Personally, I'm hoping for lock-out of cloud services (to spare Scirra from additional server load from non-paying users) and updates (users will need to update to keep up with the evolving C3 and HTML5, and also for getting bug fixes) till the users renew their subscription, but letting them edit and in some form, export their projects. But that's just my opinion.

I think this would be the most ideal solution (for users anyway), if C3 is built in such a way to accommodate this. If development is as frequent is as hoped most users will stay subscribed anyway, but it's important for us to have that safety net of being able to still open our files if not subscribed, even just for personal reasons. Some of the other proposals such as small fees for quick fixes etc are not appealing and miss the point.