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Difficulty scale / system

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  • Ok, so after lots of discussions and seeing lots of different point of views, seeing the types of posts which are made, and taking into account what others have said. It's clear there's a few things which wont change.

    • Many new posters will always ask if this or that can be done or can you make a shark backflip and shoot lasers from its eyes while using infrared crayon shaders to make it look like a cat.
    • There will be a diverse mix of talent, from the highly experienced in different areas to those with no experience at all.
    • Nothing is quite as simple as it first seems.
    • The majority of new users will always ask questions first, rather than read FAQ's, do tutorials or research themselves because, they say, "it's quicker".
    • You can draw the crayon cat, but the crayon cat can't draw you.

    Which got me to thinking, since the wiki is in need of work (and once I find out WHY sourceforge isn't letting me sign up at all, I'll be having a go editing it too). Why couldn't we do some kind of difficulty scale type system? You find it often in other places, particularly those involved in teaching and tutorials.

    For example, and this is just a very basic example, to try get the idea across. Five stages of difficulty, from very easy, to very complicated. Maybe using nice pretty visual images or something. Each level of complexity would cover certain kinds of experience/knowledge and be explained in a linked page.

    Then have a big list of examples of what construct is capable of, using real world examples (referencing particular games, showing example downloads and so on), and give a little info on how easy or difficult that kind of game or technique would be to do, as well as link to tutorials if available. It could cover anything, including various applications (since construct can do those too and unless the devs are going to remove that feature, there should be some support there as well).

    A side effect of this might also be to give people, including you old and weary pro's idea's for things you're working on. Or give stepping off points for further idea's, that might be taken into all kinds of directions.

    The point of this would be a nice simple way to give new users asking if they can do this or that, the answers they're looking for. From that point they can compare that to their current level of experience/knowledge, and it's up to them then if they think they're capable of it. Because otherwise someone could come here, ask if this or this is possible, be told yes, and maybe get an example, but be completely stumped because it's over their head, cue a collection of posts asking how to do this and that every step of the way, frustrating other users and causing animosity, even though neither side did anything wrong.

    I dunno, I just think it could be useful, and could be expanded into something better and more useful in time. I also think it could be fun. I've mentioned before how newt and deadeyes example caps tend to be a lot of fun to play with. Could even partner it with those 1 hour challenges that the forum looks like it used to have, and being based on the wiki, everyone could be involved, including newer users who themselves are still learning (who I think could give a unique perspective on just how easy or difficult things can be).

    I'm sure the idea will be poopoo'd, but throwing it out there anyways before going back to Fallout 3 to piss a few more hours away instead of doing any actual work until next year.

    P.S. Sorry for the wall of text.

  • [quote:2nsfl046]Which got me to thinking, since the wiki is in need of work (and once I find out WHY sourceforge isn't letting me sign up at all, I'll be having a go editing it too). Why couldn't we do some kind of difficulty scale type system? You find it often in other places, particularly those involved in teaching and tutorials.

    Search the forum there's a thread about signing up to have access to edit the wiki.

    [quote:2nsfl046]For example, and this is just a very basic example, to try get the idea across. Five stages of difficulty, from very easy, to very complicated. Maybe using nice pretty visual images or something. Each level of complexity would cover certain kinds of experience/knowledge and be explained in a linked page.

    Actually I think this would be better related in terms of what the user is willing to learn. The stages could be anywhere from "Can I make games with this?", to " I'll have the red pill...THANK YOUUUU!".

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  • [quote:2c49paed]Search the forum there's a thread about signing up to have access to edit the wiki.

    Yeah I think it's something I've got running that's preventing me from signing up on there. Just haven't had the time to look into it yet, I'll get it fixed though eventually.

    [quote:2c49paed]Actually I think this would be better related in terms of what the user is willing to learn. The stages could be anywhere from "Can I make games with this?", to " I'll have the red pill...THANK YOUUUU!".

    Yep! Something like that. A way to see at a glance if they're thinking beyond their means or not, which is a known problem (and we've all done it, god knows I have, lol!) where you might have the greatest idea's ever, but it's just beyond your current abilities. Might even help cut down the problem of people jumping into something there's no way they'll ever be able to complete. Or something.

  • Interesting idea, but who's going to make this "big list of examples?"

    And anyway, isn't this pretty much what the tutorials forum is for? Just mark tutorials from Beginner to Expert or something.

  • Interesting idea, but who's going to make this "big list of examples?"

    And anyway, isn't this pretty much what the tutorials forum is for? Just mark tutorials from Beginner to Expert or something.

    It could link to said tutorials here, like some of the others do. As for the list, I don't mind starting it, filling in all that I can. Once I've got it all signed up.

  • Sure, yeah... a better wiki page for tutorials sorted by difficulty would probably be a good idea.

    I still don't know how you'd go about getting people to make a huge list of examples though. People around here pretty much make tutorials on a whim. It's not like we have assignments or anything

  • tutorials are a Good Thing�

    Just make sure you upload or link them one by one, instead of making a huge to-do list. The latter would be confusing and frustrating for everyone.

  • Sure, yeah... a better wiki page for tutorials sorted by difficulty would probably be a good idea.

    I still don't know how you'd go about getting people to make a huge list of examples though. People around here pretty much make tutorials on a whim. It's not like we have assignments or anything

    Well the actual tutorials would be added as and when anyone felt like making them. As you say, on a whim "oh hey deadeye just made an example cap that could be useful for X kind of game, I'll add a link on the wiki" kind of thing. The important part would be the list. For example

    Game genre: Point and Click

    Example games: Monkey Island, Operation Stealth, Leisure Suit Larry, Day of the Tentacle (all links to mobygames or wikipedia etc.)

    Difficulty: Medium (a link to medium difficulty, which would include information you'd likely need for that level of knowledge, links to useful pages and so on and so forth. The minimum amount of knowledge required to do it without struggling too much or something)

    Tutorials/Examples: List of any tutorials or examples, if any are available. These could eventually range from complex in depth tutorials, to simple caps which just happen to show a technique which may be useful for that type of game.

    And being on the wiki, everyone could edit it, improve upon it and so on. Like I say, it's just an idea, a standard place new users asking if they can do this or that can be pointed to. Then it's up to them if they think they can achieve what they want to do, or if it's currently beyond their abilities.

  • Well why dont we start off a bit smaller. TOTD( Tip Of The Day) would be fairly easy to come up with if everyone contributes.

  • Well why dont we start off a bit smaller. TOTD( Tip Of The Day) would be fairly easy to come up with if everyone contributes.

    Sounds good to me!

  • Just my 2 cents/penneth worth.

    How about a workshop type idea.

    Say first working with loops - If people have the time they create a small examples of how loops can be used, nothing major, just real world examples of how loops could intergrate and slimline an event sheet. Same with INI files how you can read & write to them to store & retrieve values & strings. Hash Tables would be good, I know they are in the Adventure Game tutorial but something using them that is small scale, and don't have to delve to deep into the inner workings of something big-ish.

    You know sort small examples that are quickish to make but can be easily inserted into a project. Maybe have them run for a week or 2 then a thread created with all the examples that where made as downloadable links.

    I'm babbling know but thats what I'd like to seee and participate in.

  • Just my 2 cents/penneth worth.

    How about a workshop type idea.

    Say first working with loops - If people have the time they create a small examples of how loops can be used, nothing major, just real world examples of how loops could intergrate and slimline an event sheet. Same with INI files how you can read & write to them to store & retrieve values & strings. Hash Tables would be good, I know they are in the Adventure Game tutorial but something using them that is small scale, and don't have to delve to deep into the inner workings of something big-ish.

    You know sort small examples that are quickish to make but can be easily inserted into a project. Maybe have them run for a week or 2 then a thread created with all the examples that where made as downloadable links.

    I'm babbling know but thats what I'd like to seee and participate in.

    Nono, that's a good idea and along the lines of what others might be up for (and like those 1 hour threads).

    And there's an adventure game tutorial? Got a link? I wouldn't mind checking that out.

  • Here you go.

  • Here you go.

    Awesome, thanks!

  • Just really comes down to laziness of the developers...ALL...and I do mean ALL...this talk could be eliminated if the Construct Program was properly documented from the Very beginning and along the way as it grew...not leaving it up to the users to figure out what is and isnt possible.

    Of course newbees gonna Post question rather then search...that is natural...that is real life experience and intelligence or should I say conditioning. Especially if searching has proven a waste of time in the past. Ask someone that knows. Do you go to BEST BUY and search for the dilly-dad when you have no clue where it is or do you ask the employee? Ask for directions or wing it. Yes Im a retard but at least I KNOW Im a retard. There are many retards around here posing as knowledge-banks that ... ahh never mind you wouldnt understand anyway...bunch of retards.

    USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST

    Reason: Ignored repeated warnings to stop trolling the forum.

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