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Understanding subscription

  • As a long time user of c2, I'm really rooting for c3 and yet unsure about upgrading.

    I understand c3 will have major improvements over c2, but every new version of software has those. Usually those don't need a subscription to get them, though... It seems like a lot of money each year, and I'm not clear on two things:

    1. Why is the subscription required? I've only read in the blog post that it's because it's a web service,and web services need subscriptions, but I'm not sure what that means, or why I would subscribe year after year?

    2. What benefits does the subscription itself add to the c3 experience? I see clearly how I benefit with Adobe CC versus CS, for example, but I can't see yet the subscription-specific benefits of c3 now or in the long term.

    I'd love if Ashley or Tom could help me understand the need for and the upsides to this new model.

    Thanks very much for c2, and good luck with c3

  • Does this answer your question?

    > Want I want to know is why won't Tom or Ashley explain the sudden shift in business ethics. Why won't they explain why it's necessary for users not to own what they pay for?

    >

    There's several reasons:

    - we're hosting the software in the browser, with a cloud service behind it. I'm not aware of any software or service that runs in a browser and is a one-time payment - it's just not economical given the running costs.

    - we also provide other on-going hosted services like the new app building service. I'd also point out you get this service *and* the entire Construct 3 editor for less than the cost of PhoneGap Build alone, so I think this is actually a pretty good deal. We actually already run some on-going services for free with C2, such as the Scirra Arcade (which is chewing up tons of bandwidth these days!) and the multiplayer signalling server.

    - the one-time payment model is risky in the long-term, especially since we don't regularly do the whole "new major version everyone has to pay for again" process. Scirra is currently sustained almost exclusively by new users buying C2 for the first time. If the flow of new users dried up, we risk going out of business - even if we have tens of thousands of active users. There's also the aspect that we're still supporting people who bought C2 five years ago at no extra cost, and this existing audience is getting larger.

    - this is the way the industry is generally going, and some competitors are already doing it. It's harder to compete with tools that have on-going income when you only have one-off income with on-going maintenance costs, especially when there are various on-going services we're running.

    I guess at the end of the day, if you absolutely cannot stand subscriptions, you can either stick with C2 or look for a different tool.

  • Does this answer your question?

    It does indeed, thanks very much. Logical answers - I wish this had been part of the original explanation!

    It's too bad that users (like myself) who don't build apps and who already have an existing cloud service have to pay for those features.

    I wish there was a basic version without these services, with a lower subscription cost.

    I'll wait and see for now. Thanks for your help.

  • I agree, the subscription model seems to force you to pay for services you may not need at all.

    We should have a version where you get desktop export for a one-time price, then web/html export for the lowest priced subscription, UWP/Console for the medium priced subscription, then mobile for the highest priced subscription since it uses all scirra cloud/web services/plugins.

  • They are not even going to provide these "services" they are going to use google drive and similar and charge you for this. https://www.scirra.com/blog/191/saving- ... onstruct-3

  • The subscription covers all the features in Construct 3, not just a few services. We also have a cloud hosting network just to serve Construct 3 itself.

    The cloud save feature will also work in the free edition, so that's not actually something we're charging for.

  • We also have a cloud hosting network just to serve Construct 3 itself.

    Remind me, who asked for this "feature"?

  • Heres the common theme im hearing as a new guy. Construct needs to change to make profit, the communnity needs features to make profit. Both are valid points. What will construct 3 actually offer at this point? How will this increase the community usability to make profit?

  • > We also have a cloud hosting network just to serve Construct 3 itself.

    >

    Remind me, who asked for this "feature"?

    Some guy named Fred I think.

    Of course it's not much different than cookies when you think about it.

    Do you like cookies?

  • > We also have a cloud hosting network just to serve Construct 3 itself.

    >

    Remind me, who asked for this "feature"?

    The people who asked almost daily for Mac and Linux ports, and even some who asked for Chrome OS and even one or two who dreamed about using Construct 3 on their phone or tablet. That's how we approached the problem, and that's how we support two whole OSs nobody else in the industry has even attempted to.

  • So because a handful of people wanted a feature that the masses did not, we all pay for it guess.

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  • we all pay for it guess.

    What do you mean by that? What we saw from the blog posts is that it runs great. We'll yet to try it in April, but currently I don't see any problems with the browser based editor.

  • The subscription covers all the features in Construct 3, not just a few services. We also have a cloud hosting network just to serve Construct 3 itself.

    The cloud save feature will also work in the free edition, so that's not actually something we're charging for.

    @ashley

    What would those services be? You are relying on third party services to host projects

    The exporters seem to be the only thing hosted on scirra's server (running costs?) - which only creates limitations on the user side.

    But that doesnt have to be the case - you could have as well made the browser download the exporter and include it in the editor..

    So far I don't see a single new service with a running cost that construct3 will provide.

    Developing and updating the software itself is a service that construct2 had as well- and the one time payment approach did not seem to have trouble paying for it. Why don't you guys request payment for software updates instead, if the software has no running cost services? It makes the subscription model seem unfair to some users.

    Hosting construct 3 - which can also run offline anyways - its the same as hosting construct 2's installers

    There seems to be nothing that would increase the price of hosting there

    The subscription model will decrease your bandwidth for sure though

    If you want to justify the "new running cost" , at least provide something new that the user will be paying for

  • > The subscription covers all the features in Construct 3, not just a few services. We also have a cloud hosting network just to serve Construct 3 itself.

    >

    > The cloud save feature will also work in the free edition, so that's not actually something we're charging for.

    >

    Ashley

    What would those services be? You are relying on third party services to host projects

    The exporters seem to be the only thing hosted on scirra's server (running costs?) - which only creates limitations on the user side.

    But that doesnt have to be the case - you could have as well made the browser download the exporter and include it in the editor..

    So far I don't see a single new service with a running cost that construct3 will provide.

    Developing and updating the software itself is a service that construct2 had as well- and the one time payment approach did not seem to have trouble paying for it. Why don't you guys request payment for software updates instead, if the software has no running cost services? It makes the subscription model seem unfair to some users.

    Hosting construct 3 - which can also run offline anyways - its the same as hosting construct 2's installers

    There seems to be nothing that would increase the price of hosting there

    The subscription model will decrease your bandwidth for sure though

    You need to keep it real.

    Download the exporter and include it in the editor? Not even possible in a way that people would not run around screaming it takes ages to export.

    The running costs of hosting an online editor in the scope of C3 is far beyond your thoughts on it.

    Multiple servers, bandwidth, it needs to be scalabe, stable, .... Its not as simple as having a file server provide C2 as a download.

  • I would be interested to see some figures on how the bandwidth has increased for scirra after moving to a cloud.

    The editor being cloud actually would allow them to decrease bandwidth, because the update doesnt have to re-download the entire installer. It can download only the parts that have been updated.

    I would even go as far as argue that users downloading entire installers to update constrcut2 every time uses much more bandwidth than users web browsers downloading only updated parts of the editor to the user's hard drive when an update is available - which is what construct3 is going for.

    That is what happens in the background anyway - your web browser will download the editor locally in order to load it anyways.

    So it seems like a win win for scirra here. People using less bandwidth when updating means less running cost

    Potentially new bandwidth could be used for the exporter - which uploads your project to scirra's server, but that in theory is probably going to be less than the users web browser downloading the entire exporter with the editor.

    In that case I think it could help scirra improve their editor, because that will give them user projects to test with and fix bottlenecks in their wrapper

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