Should I keep C2 or move on ?

  • Greetings everyone, the following text may be long.

    First of all, no, this is not a Oh Shit Construct 3 Oh shit related topic. The title implies some doubts regarding a project, not the tools themselves. I freakin love Construct 2, I love this community and I'll take Construct 3. That's being said, after reading a bunch of stuff in Construct 3 General discussion, I've come to realize that the project I'm currently working on (for almost two years now) might be a bad move on Scirra's tools. The engine is great, but maybe not the one I should be using for this.

    Context :

    Some years ago, I was disregarding the softwares and tools like Construct Classic, Unity and co because from my point of view, they were nothing but poor attempts to help lost users to create uninteresting and basic games because coding was soooo complicated for the plebe. You know, this kind of guy so proud and arrogant because he knows how to make a freakin stickman move on some freakin platforms thanks to LibGdx/Java or AS3/Flash. Useless to say, I was completely wrong, but the fact is :

    I've made some little games using Flash and Java for a time.

    Then someday, some dude told me that I could do the exact same stuff - even better and faster - using Construct 2. I was kinda condescendant at the time, but this same dude being someone I respected, I decided to take a look and actually learn some facts about this kind of tools instead of sticking with my dumb ideas. One year later, I was buying a licence. And I don't regret anything to this day. Yup, that's my story and the context, now let's go back to the problem.

    But now :

    I've made some stuff. Silly, serious, polished, bullshit or not. Various kind of stuff. Using Java, Flash or Construct 2. But in 2015, I have finally started to work on a serious project, a little 2D world which really matters for me, the first game which I could eventually sold someday (I'll probably not earn anything but still, to achieve a long time dream and for the sake of the process, you know, the usual speech). I've started it with Construct 2. As you know, it's awesome to quickly build something which works, so it's easy to create prototypes. And that's basically what I have for now : A prototype. A sandbox. An environment wich exists only to test the AI, the animations, the gameplay, the fluidity, the rendering, the lighting and so on. A little something to make several experiments and adjust everything before starting the creation of the real levels.

    I can still go back. I'm not too advanced yet. I have the core. Not the world. But I don't know if I should. After reading the Official Information Thread of Construct 3, I've learned that Construct 2 seems to be a huge hell when it comes to create and publish big or medium length projects. I don't really know how big will be mine, I'd say medium for the moment, but still. Now that I'm working on something serious, what is better ? To polish my prototype using Construct 2/Construct 3 then build it with another engine, or to continue with Construct 2/Construct 3, despite the risk of ending up with something unadapted to this engine ? I feel kinda lost these days.

    This is not a tiled game, there are several layers and several assets...and it's just a sandbox right now, not even a real level. I don't know. The tool is great, the event system is amazing, but I fear to find myself stuck with limitations or problems from third parties or god know what while working on this. I'd like to hear your opinions, guys. Thank you

  • This question also bugs me for a while now. While we don't know what C3 will bring on the desktop export area, I'd also love to read some of the respected developers' opinion who published bigger, more complex games using C2.

  • Well you have to consider your target platform.

    While it would be great to be able to export to the major consoles, you have to be realistic in that they won't accept anything that isn't of a really high standard.

    To make things worse, I don't think they are as critical on 3d as they are with 2d. Minecraft would be a good example.

  • If you can afford the risk, I would just finish it with the tools you are currently using and gain the experience with finishing a project of that size. That way you at least have done something whereas restarting over just prevents you from creating the game. I don't think your concern (if this is your first big project) should be about how it will be received, etc, since there are many other factors and lessons you'll experience by finishing it. Hope that makes sense.

  • Personally I might slowly be switching to HaxeFlixel or the newer haxe kha for the same very reason. I found it quite easy from a non programmer ( with a bit of programming background though)

    to work with. C2 can be quite powerful but at the same time there's a lot of limitations to take into account for some type of projects. So in my humble opinion, keep working with C2/C2 if you can afford it, because at the end Construct still very good for fast prototyping ideas. And I would suggest you to try other engines/framework.

    Like I said, to me Haxe Flixel seems great.

  • LeuNoeleeste

    It looks like C3 will be C2 running in a browser + some added features + subscription model (that is the best way I can describe it at the moment). If you are satisfied with C2 until now and agree to pay 100$/year, then yes, C3 might be a solution for you.

    Also, like newt said, you should first target a platform.

    In my case, subscription model is not for a hobbyist like me, so I am leaving the ship. Also you should consider that almost all the developers who made a bigger C2 game have or are thinking to use another software in the future.

    Best to wait for C3 announcement and decide after that.

  • Finish your game in C2/C3

    I've seen enough games made with C2 to show it is more than capable of big games on PC.

    or.....

    https://www.scirra.com/forum/the-next-penelope-2d-f-zero-ulysses-31_p1100414?&sid=20d09285a241da9637860a2b9785bb76#p1100414

  • Lots of problems exporting to PC with C2. Unless C3 updates this I would steer clear, hopefully c3 will majorly improve this...

  • Thank you guys for your answers, I'm gonna answer you as well !

    @glerikud Hum, I don't know. I've been through the whole post-publication entries written by Aurel on The Next Penelope for example, and it's pretty much what we all fear and what we all know already : The guy respects Construct 2 and claims that it's a fine tool (which is true), but also says that the said tool is a real pain in the ass on several aspects to the point that he's now working on the Unity version of his game. It's a grey area. No black nor white here. It's great, and it's not at the same time. In the end, this post-publication is not really reassuring for someone in my current position.

    @newt Although your answer is entirely true, it's not related to my doubts. I perfectly know where I want to publish my work afterward. It's my first commercial game, I'm nobody, and I'm probably working on nothing. I target Desktop and mobiles. For a first product made by another anonymous indy, it'd be entirely enough I think. If the game is a successful one, there, I could consider an export on consoles or something. But for now, such an export is nothing but a vague dream. Not even a dream, a thought. So, in my case, using C2 and C3 is not an issue regarding this point. Consoles doesn't have my consideration for now.

    @Prominent It makes sense. And I'm a huge adept of the Experiment and suffer to grow stronger and better concept in life anyway. However, as game makers (hobbyist or not), we also need to stay pragmatic and logical. Today, I have a sandbox. A great test area, to play with physic, animations, gameplay elements, lighting. I experiment. I make experiments. And I learn. While learning, I still wonder if this is the right engine to use, because I could be screwed at the very end or even before. And I'm still able to step back. To recreate everything elsewhere, using what I learned and will learn thanks to C2 or C3. So...what's the most logical way available ?

    @FraktalZero and TGeorgeMihai I see. You're right. I think I'll try Unity, and see how much work it is to remake what I already have on C2. By that time, C3 Beta should be available, so I'll be able to see what it can offers as well. To learn, to see, and to choose between all the possibilities. Maybe even with little old friend Java again.

    I'll take a look at Haxe Flixel as well.

    @NetOne I don't really understand your point. I mean, your answer is basically :

    You fear to work on something which will then become a tiring hell on Construct 2 if it's bigger than expected. Hey, take a look at this link which talks about one of the most known C2 user who confirms your fears about the export and the performance aspects.

    The story of Aurelien Regard is one of the sources of my worries on the matter. So why do you say I should continue to work on my first big project with C2 ?

    @STARTECHSTUDIOS I've heard that there are several problems when it comes to export to mobiles. C3 will apparently fix that. On Desktop as well ?

  • There's always the lure of other engines, greener grass and that stuff. But every time you switch there's a new learning period, time spent re-working things into the new mold, new frustrations to replace the old etc... So if you're not gunning for console (or mobile) I agree with Prominent.

    But you could always feel out some other engines a bit, see what's what. Godot seems pretty solid imo.

  • ErekT I'm gunning for mobile (and C3 seems to be a good way for it). And yes, nothing is perfect and I'll always end up frustrated because of something, that's for sure. But when it comes to export or to check performances in anything which is not little games, grass is known to be greener elsewhere. And my doubts are about performances and export...I'm not worried by anything else in C2. But yeah, as I said, I think I will start to remake everything I have in Unity (or Java, or Godot, or Haxe flixel) while waiting to test C3.

    This way, I should be able to decide what to do. Sticking with C2, sticking with Unity/Java/Godot/Whatever, or using C3. I need to gather as much informations as I can about whatever alternative to C2 or C3 I might consider, to perfectly acknowledge its pros and cons. Once again, it's all about this specific project, Scirra's tools remain the best when it comes to create small but advanced and sympathic contents. Everything is still possible for my case. I may be end up working on this in C2 or C3.

  • LeuNoeleeste If it's not a big problem to you, in the future I'd like to read your opinions about the engines you've tried and experimented with.

  • glerikud Not a problem at all, however if I recall correctly, you already know Unity, so if I decide to use this tool instead of C2 while I'm waiting for C3, I don't think my opinion will be really useful for you. Nobody uses Flash anymore, so once again, my point of view about it would be pretty useless. If I use Haxe Flixel or Godot or Fusion or anything which is not Unity, and if you wonder how useful and powerful the LibGdx library for Java truly is, I'd be glad to shate my experience on the matter, yep.

  • LeuNoeleeste

    I was not trying to make a point.

    There are many similar posts on this forum asking "should I use Construct or another engine"

    It is always the same discussion and same answers.

    But the question is always the wrong question....

    The real question is,

    Do you embrace (with all associated limitations and advantages) Scirra's dedication to HTML/JS and the vision of a universal, browser based platform?

    and the answer is a simple yes / no

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  • Not a problem at all, however if I recall correctly, you already know Unity, so if I decide to use this tool instead of C2 while I'm waiting for C3, I don't think my opinion will be really useful for you. Nobody uses Flash anymore, so once again, my point of view about it would be pretty useless. If I use Haxe Flixel or Godot or Fusion or anything which is not Unity, and if you wonder how useful and powerful the LibGdx library for Java truly is, I'd be glad to shate my experience on the matter, yep.

    Indeed, I tried Unity, but I found UE4 more suitable for my needs. Currently I'm learning Godot. Not that I want to leave C2/C3, I just like to keep my eyes open on the market. However it's always useful to see this matter through someone else's eyes.

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