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Feature: Multi-Layout Editor

  • Wouldn't it be awesome if Construct had a way to visually connect layouts? Or perhaps have like a layout container which has separate layouts inside but acts as a single layout for programming purposes.

    Think of having two layouts taped together end to end, so instead of having to make a "Go to layout" event the player could just walk into the next layout because they're dynamically connected together.

    This sort of feature would be super useful for anybody making Metroidvania type games and possibly many other genres.

    Imagine sort of;

    layout 1 + layout 2

    [----------]=[----------]

    This would make the engine a lot more user friendly and make it a better engine needing less events and less hassling the event system.

    In case nobody understands what I'm trying to say, imagine a photo as a layout, now imagine two photos.

    Instead of say, putting one behind the other when trying to look at the photo you put them side by side. I hope that makes sense.

    At the risk of sounding incredibly stupid I post this,

    Maybe someone understands what I'm trying to say and it becomes a real feature and revolutionizes Construct2's abilities.

    Thanks for reading!

  • Man, that would be hella rad!

  • Are we talking about a visual GUI editor or Dockable UI in the construct 2 SDK?

    Just curious here

  • It's too niche and I don't think it is that difficult to make similar thing using events. Having a big layout would do similar thing though.

  • I pitched this to Ashley a while back as a "Visual Layout Manager" and even made a number of mockups.

    Here is one of them. (Metroid style)

    Here is another. (Zelda style)

    It's not happening :T

    He suggested open-world / metroidvania style areas are created in a single layout. That's what I did for Minitroid, and I have a laundry list of reasons you shouldn't do that.

    For those saying open-world games are niche...you really must not play very many games.

  • Tokinsom Those mockups are so cool! This would be awesome, but I wonder how much of C2 internal architecture would have to change so that would be possible.

    And that is way better than having a single huge layout, because we could change the map layout on the fly in a easy way, much faster than the single layout approach, and memory management could be easier.

  • What... happened to my second post? Seems it's gone. Weird.

    Anyway, this was the gist of it;

    Tokinsom

    We should have like a rally or poll to see how many users/customers of Construct2 want this feature, if Ashley sees that a lot of people (his customers) want this specific feature he might budge and implement it into Construct2 or even make a different version of Construct2 that has this feature (since it might be better to have two different versions, obviously we'd call the multi-layout version ConstructM. The M being like the 2 in squared numbers.)

    HeadClot

    I think it's better you hear it from Tokinsom since he's obviously put a lot more thought and effort into it, I just made a couple posts about it but he's already done mock-ups and obviously has a LOT knowledge about Construct2 than me.

    We should totally have a poll or something to make Ashley see how many people want this feature. This sort of thing would revolutionize Construct2 and substantially upgrade it's game development ability and how fast games are produced using it.

    Btw dibs on getting the PR job for ConstructM (M = Metroidvania)

  • It's probably not feasible within the Construct 2 generation of editor. I mean, the placement of the UI tabs in those screenshot mockups alone is not supported by our UI library, which is a big black box of another company's code that I'd prefer not to get tangled up in. I think the best view for this kind of advanced modification of the editor is for the next generation editor, which hopefully will support editor plugins, so third party devs can experiment with this level of UI modification.

    BTW we would never publish a separate version of Construct 2 just because of a feature difference. We want one product with one codebase.

  • Ashley

    If it ever came out it would be in Construct 3, so there's absolutely no chance of such a feature being implemented to Construct 2?

    A lot of people want this, as it currently stands Construct 2 requires a bit of no-programming programming to get inter-layout interactions/transitions going.

    It's kind of ironic that this is being marketed as

    [quote:15h06vym]Our highly intuitive event system makes putting your games together quick and easy.

    Yet a lot of people have no idea how to make simple transitions. I myself was very smoothly developing my little Metroidvania until I had to get around to going the door layout-layout transition at which point development stopped dead for 2-3 months now.

    In my personal opinion, Construct 2 is an engine that still requires programming knowledge but it just simplifies the input method of the code to select-and-click instead of writing the full script out in say C# or python.

    The people who have made successful games using Construct 2 so far have only been people with experience and backgrounds writing code/scripts. Tokinsom has been the literally the only one to be able to replicate a simple transition in Construct 2 and he is obviously very good at programming, seeing as he made "First Super Metroid Remake Revival X Blood Pt.2 Ch.5 The Return Of Samus Returns -The Sequel- " and ROM hacking if I remember requires Hex editing.

    This is going to sound incredibly rude but maybe

    [quote:15h06vym]Our highly intuitive event system makes putting your games together quick and easy.

    should be changed to

    [quote:15h06vym]Our highly intuitive event system makes putting your games together quick and easy.*

    (If you have experience in programming, otherwise you're doomed to sift through tutorials and forums for more than half a year before giving up, then seeing a video of someone else who did exactly what you want to do but can only do it cause he's a programmer.)

    There's still a defining line for people who can make games, they're either programmers or stuck in development hell.

    Recently the surge of high-profile games being made are by people who made it in Construct2 simply because it was faster not because they couldn't program. It's a little ironic that a non-programming game engine can't be fully used by people who can't program.

    Sorry if I sound like an ss that has no idea what he's talking about. This is just my 2 cents worth of opinion, don't take it personally or anything. I'm just stating what I'm seeing happen.

  • It's unlikely we will make any significant changes to the editor in the Construct 2 generation. We are thinking about how to rebuild it for the next generation to make significant new features like editor plugins possible and want our focus to be on that.

    I don't see what this has to do with our marketing message, it's just a feature request like any other.

  • Fair enough, about the next generation; could you hold up a poll or something here on the forums or facebook to see what features and things are most wanted (besides this one) before its out so people don't complain about lack of features.

    Yeah you have a point, it just an opinion anyway so freely disregard it.

    About C3, any idea about a release date, or is it just in the idea stage at this point?

  • It's probably not feasible within the Construct 2 generation of editor. I mean, the placement of the UI tabs in those screenshot mockups alone is not supported by our UI library, which is a big black box of another company's code that I'd prefer not to get tangled up in. I think the best view for this kind of advanced modification of the editor is for the next generation editor, which hopefully will support editor plugins, so third party devs can experiment with this level of UI modification.

    BTW we would never publish a separate version of Construct 2 just because of a feature difference. We want one product with one codebase.

    Every time I hear this, I weep tears of joy.

    I hope this next IDE is as HTML5-based as the runtime.

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  • Tokinsom , wow, these are great mockups! I wish these ideas were feasible.

    Ashley , what about visual guides at least. are those included in the black box? It would be great if we had at least that (seeing the Metroid Style mockup really opened my appetite)!

  • There is another way to handle open-world/metroidvania style maps that hasn't been discussed much here. It is actually more versatile, too.

    Basically...instead of using multiple layouts, one "super layout" or "layout grid" would load & unload user-defined chunks of itself based on proximity of an object (i.e. your player or camera). It'd be very similar to the existing collision cells, except it would manage layout data & objects.

    That is more or less how JKB developed his world map for Megaman X: Corrupted. Here are some screenshots of his editor to get a better idea of what I'm talking about...

    Screenshot 1

    Screenshot 2

    As you can see in screenshot 1, the world consists of a grid of 320x240 cels. What's so great about this is you can move from cel to cel seamlessly, or add whatever type of transitions you want like in Metroid, Zelda, or Castlevania...it's completely up to you.

    If you really want to push it...you could then treat these "layout grids" as individual layouts containing various areas in the game.

    Ashley do you think this might be more feasible with the existing architecture?

  • Glad to see my topic post is being used as a catalyst for Tokinsom to convince Ashley to make this

    Would be amazing if he did.

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