encouraging players to keep on retrying

  • I came across: youtube.com/watch

    So I wanna have some discussion.

    in recent super mario 3D world, if you die too many times on any level, the game will grant you the white tanuki suit which offers what you can see in the video.

    What do you guys think? Like it? Hate it?

    Personally I would prefer the player to keep on trying, but in this "trying to get it right" could be exhausting to weaker player. Mario 3d world just give you to suit to remedy this, should you call it quit. But will you feel good with this? This feels like a teacher giving a kid a passing grade after failing so many times. You are getting something you don't deserve.

    So instead, what are better alternatives to this that MUST make the player feel good in each retry and encouraging players to keep on trying? Or do you think this is rather unneccessary?

  • do it as in angry bird. there you pay 0,79$ and the level is clear ;-)

  • If your mom left a note on the table with a gun asking you to go to the store for a loaf of bread, would you infer that you must use the gun?

  • newt you have every rights to choose a gun, a bomb or anything or even nothing. If a gun and bombs make cops follow you later and kill you, then you can try some other strategy instead.

    but you know, games these days are just getting so easy that it lacks a challenge. In a harder area, I want to make it so players wanna sink their teeth into difficulties like those players wanting to see triple 7 on slot machine. That's the kind of thing I am looking for.

    @beaverlicious no lets not use any freemium stuff here. That's as bad as the Tanuki suit.

  • Point is, its up to you.

    You have to remember that they have a huge target audience, such as children with the frustration tolerance of a chiwawa with rabies.

  • Exactly, but there gotta be some other ways other than just the white Tanuki suit or one holy grail item to skip levels.

  • Same as in every time-robbing game like diablo etc.

    Let the people get something for the time they play, like xp for example, even they fail 1578338 times.

    So people have the feeling to increase, even the steps are nearly useless.

    Have a look on Mega Jump for mobile for example.

  • I agree with keroberos. If anything you should just be allowed to skip the level with some sort of penalty, and come back to it at a later time...making it "that one darn level" you are motivated to go back and complete.

  • I prefer to make the player take time to finish the game.

  • I liked my solution for my Chicks game, I'll probably use it again.

    You have to save as many chicks as you can in a level. There is a minimum you have to save to unlock the next level.

    However you only have the chicks you saved in the previous level to play the next level with. If it's too hard, come back and play the previous levels again, to get more to play with later.

  • Generally, I hate letting the player character die. It's just bad game design. There are so many alternatives. For example, imagine a jumping puzzle that's just too hard for you. The character falls, but instead of dying, he lands on another path that is much simpler. Or he lands on a path that leads him back to the start, but on the way you find a one-time rocket suit that let's you manage that one spot where you failed before. There's so much that can be done.

    The fear of a 'game over' isn't motivating, it's frustrating. But, in the example above with that rocket suit, I would lose XP or a heart or whatever reward, for not being able to do the jump. And that would motivate to play again.

  • There are as many different types of players as there are different types of games, and that's a good thing. If someone doesn't like the way one game plays out, or if it's too easy or too hard for them, there are literally thousands of other games out there to choose from. What's too difficult for one person will be the perfect challenge for another and too easy for yet another. It's just how it is. :) At least in the case of the 3d Mario game they are giving the player an option to continue if it's too hard. They don't HAVE to use it, it's their choice. If the option weren't available perhaps some people would give up and go play another of those thousands of available games mentioned above. In my opinion it's better for the game designer to at least offer some kind of "out" for people who simply don't have the skill to get through the difficult levels. It's a form of player retention. :)

  • Ya know, at first I completely agreed with the video but then I realised - if I was given the option, I'd probably take it. Why? Because that'd be fun to me - to be able to steamroll through everything without having to worry about dying. To me, the most important thing is that a game is FUN above anything else.

    Also, some players don't have great amounts of time to just sit down and play a video game and would prefer to just get through the story as quickly as possible.

    Besides, they still have the risk of falling (I assume).

    There's a stickied thread in this forum that talks about game over design as Tulamide mentioned.

  • Mind give me a link to that stickied thread?

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  • To encourage player to continue, I think the best options are:

    -Make it so the death isn't unfair

         the player has to know beforehand that something can be dangerous, I know it seems stupid that I say this, but players don't know what to expect in some cases, if a new sort of trap appears, make it so the player see it working once, so he can learn from that and thus, will forgive you if he died because of that.

    -control often, and not only by yourselves, the difficulty curve of your game

        a game doesn't have to be easy or difficult, but it has to start quite easy, then increasing in difficulty without having a huge "OMFG What is this Impossibru thing I fought 2 goombas the level before and now there are 10 hammer brothers coming for me O_O"' "

    -Checkpoints

         make it so the player can do a mistake without being punished too much (An unfair exemple: In ninja gaiden, If the player lose a life in the level 6-3, he come back at the begginning of 6-3, when reaching 6-4, the first phase of the last boss, the health isn't refill, and if he lose one life, he don't go back to 6-4, or 6-3 no, but 6-1, that is quite an exemple of unforgiving checkpoint madness combined with no health refill when needed)

    -If possible, have a difficulty setting that works, so if people find it too hard, you can make it less horrible to some extend, and harder for people that seek challenge.

    -Don't do "Game over" if your game is long, losing your last life to the final boss stage because of one stupid mistake is the worst thing that can happen

    -Maybe letting some clues to the players on what they did wrong, or how to do it right when they lose a certain amount of times.

    But mostly the player should lose because of himself, If I lose because of bad controls, I'll be mad and will end up turning off the game, if it is because of a random glitch, I'll be mad but whatever, If because of unfairness, I'll be real mad, and will really have a hate relationship with the said game, but If It because of myself, well, gotta get better, and Finally I'll be able to finish a game I love

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