Mobile Performance Issues & Dramas

  • I opened this thread following the advice from Ashley as you can see on this thread

    https://www.scirra.com/forum/framerate-stutter-achieve-smooth-fps_t201444

    There you can find some Capx to test & Videos if you don't have the device to run the Test

    I do think it was all related anyway on that thread and is nothing to do with just the Path Finder, but I hope we can bring some light and possible solutions to the problem.

    What are the issues?

    -Stutters on exported Games made on c2/c3

    -Code Executing is much slower on Webview than Canvas+, as a result, making some Games unplayable

    The Goal of this thread?

    -Why are this issues still happening in 2018 with all modern devices

    -what is the cause of this problems

    -And what are you Scirra doing to Fix these Problems? especially now that you started to charge Yearly Payments

    -Why are supposedly so many users of c3/c2 and no many of them report these things? are you guys doing some kind of Magic voodoo tricks to Fix those issues? if yes please lets us know the solutions so we can use them as well <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile">

    And this is not about "Path Finder" issue because I removed the Pathfinder and I did a custom Build with Events but as I said in the other thread Exported C2/C3 Games cant handle loops either stuttering like crazy, so the Problem here is "Performance"

    Well, I think I have been really patient and 4 months trying to Fix stutters and trying to make work the official Path Finder repeating the same thing over and over, is a long time to say enough is enough!!

    We as a Customer, are the ones paying you and the funny thing we are the ones that have to waste time debugging Problems for you, making Capx for you, making videos for you, serving you everything in one plate so you can at the End ignore us and the Evidence, when it should be the opposite you are the ones that should test and Debug and fix any Performance Issues.

    First of all, I don't care if the Problems are from Webview or Canvas or whatever technology you decided to use on C2/c3. as you didn't leave us much choice to choose from, is in it?

    What I care is how you gonna fix it, that's your Problem is not us, we pay for a product that is supposed to work as advertised, and at the moment you sell a broken Product for 99$ A year that doesn't work in some cases, I say in some cases because yes you must have customers satisfied with your product but not all of them, and this leads to the next question

    You as Busines Do you understand your Customer Needs in your user base?

    What I mean is do you understand that not everyone is using your Game Engine to make (Educational Apps or Flappy Birds, or simplistic Games) which for those types of Games c2/c3 is Fine

    I have to ask this because for what I see because some of them are Happy, you made the decision like everyone is happy and as a consequence, you don't invest any time to Improve the Performance for "Mobile Exported Games"

    A mean I been waiting impatiently for C3 all those Years for the above reason to be fixed, that was my number One priority, I don't mind to not have some effects, I don't mind to not have some Plugins, I don't mind many things but Performance it should have been the top Priority and ensure Compatibility with any third Party exporters to Run at decent Performance. At the end of the day the Mobile thing is helping you to Grow Up your business, wouldn't you spend more time in fixing those issues?

    2 to 3 years of C3 Development and this basic thing didn't get Fixed, will this ever get fixed guys with new Run Time??

    I mean with C2 you can get away with this as is one time Payment but with C3 yearly? having such Performance issues.

    And just to make it clear I don't have any problem with the subscription, in fact, I paid C3 just to support you because you have a great Product, knowing I will not be using it Much if you don't believe you can check my usage , I do believe in what you are saying in order to C3 to advance and inprove subscription is a good thing to keep money coming in and keep hiring Emplyers to make C3 a grate Engine, but comon guys the least I espect is a decent performance on Mobiles Exported Games becuase I cant stop thinking where is all that money going to??

    Do you realize Scirra that you change your business structure but you didn't change or Fixed some of the Top Issues like Performance on "Mobile Exported Games"

    When you had only C2 you were forgiven and overlooked many things, but with C3 if you don't deliver Grate Product at every Level will be many questions, Bad Reviews, fights, Etc

    because one thing I would have made sure before I change my Busines structure to Subscription is to ensure at last that I optimized my product as best as I could.

    But you didn't and on top of that you not listening to your customer's needs or at the list I don't feel like you listen but that is my personal view

    I'm sorry to say but in my opinion if c3 & c2 where to Pass a test with the minimum requirements to be able to sell it and market it as for Mobiles Platform you will fail, as I cant see an Engine that fails to run a simple Loop or behaviours in most of the Phones and not to mention in Phones like iPhone ("6" & "7" & "8" & "X")

    As a Game Engine company the first thing you need to do is to make sure you Test and ensure that your Optimize your Engine to the best compatibility with the Third Partys options that you Gave us

    And that means if is necessary contact and work hand by hand with these third Partys companies to ensure the best performance and quality of your Product. because at the end of the Day these companies are helping you to Grow up your Busines as if it wasn't for them you will have no Mobile export options, so it makes sense to work with them as is gonna benefit you and benefit them and the most important benefit your User Base, so I don't see why you would have any problem there.

    And all this you should always take into account that your users will be exporting many different Types of Games, some will be more advance more action, more moving objects so you shouldn't relay or assume that all the Games made in C2/c3 will be (Educational Apps or Flappy Birds, or simplistic Games) unless you make it really clear in your front page that this engine is for those Types of Games only.

    I'm not against you or anything like that, I'm just an angry customer that thinks these things it shouldn't happen in 2018 with all the new technology and all the good new Generation of powerful phones

    You have a Grate product and you are doing an Amazing job in many different Aereas, Example the last blog about New RunTime Performance you showed stunning results which I can't wait to test it.

    But the question is are those new improvements gonna resolve all these issues about Performance. because what is the point to have a Ferrari Engine when the end result after exporting is gonna be the same

    What can we do at this moment while we waiting for the "New Run Time" any Ideas, Fixes, suggestions?

    =========================================================================

    Tests & Capx for "Stutters"

    Thread link:

    https://www.scirra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=146&t=193904&p=1160551#p1160551

    I run a test with the capx I posted there

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/14nxrodiir87k9q/AutoRunner%20Dino2.capx?dl=0

    Tests Exported with Cocoon Webview

    Iphone 6 Test

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/35k4dykvq2ma7ig/DinoIphone6.mp4?dl=0

    Iphone 7 Test

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3fxf7xzxanv2ofo/DinoIphone7.mp4?dl=0

    ========================================================================

    Tests & Capx for "PathFinder"

    Capx:

    Its done really quick and I didn't look to make it perfect, but it shows my Point very clear

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/nzgkezqa6oehywo/1-WebviewTest.capx?dl=0

    Videos: Test done in an Iphone 6

    This is a test Exported with Cocoon WebView (but exactly the same happens with PhoneGap)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ni44kmt4g4svrjr/WebView.mp4?dl=0

    And This is a test Exported with Cocoon Canvas+

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/568asek26khbcq0/Canvas%2B.mp4?dl=0

    Steps to Reproduce The more Yellow colour you see the worst (meaning code Delayed)

    Move around so the Enemies (Red Squares) can find a path to the Player, Every 1 second

    On the Trigger were they start looking for Path I set their frame to 1 which is = Yellow

    On Trigger Path Found I set the Frame Back to 0 which is = Red

    Observed Result

    WebView:

    it takes for Ever to find a Path, you will see that the frame stays Yellow for long periods of Time when it should only blink really quick, meaning that is that slow that sometimes they stack in the same position looking for Path.

    Maybe Here you will not appreciate much but when this happens on my Game where the enemies should continuously hunt the Player and they are about to catch the Player and suddenly they just stop taking a sun bath for long periods of time, doesn't look good at all you cant call it a Game.

    Canvas+:

    Is that Fast that you cant even see the blink from one frame to the other

    And again here you will not appreciate but in my Game, you can see how everything moves Fast, how quick they swap Directions, how quick they execute the Events and many more things, so yeah is a big Gap and you can easily compare them both and find out who is faster, I do.

    in an Iphone 7 exported with Cocoon WebView

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezute95v4o9rw ... w.mp4?dl=0

    Let's not forget that these tests have nothing just the pathfinder events, still, we didn't add the Game Logic, menus etc.... and look the Performance, can you see anyone doing a Mobile Game like that

  • Here we go again.

    The mods should create one thread on "mobile export issues" and keep everything there. Otherwise, there will be an endless number of threads on this same problem. Not disrespecting the OP, but the forums are plastered with threads on the same topic and it doesn't give a good vibe.

  • If you think there are issues, make minimal test .capx projects and share them. That is how to understand, diagnose and fix any issues there may be. Anything other than that is not going to get anyone anywhere.

    Also, every device I've tested in our office performs just fine. We have many people publishing mobile games which work just fine. As I've said before, we very often get people doing things like hitting GPU bandwidth limits and blaming us - no technology will save you there, it's a hardware limit. On the whole I'm sure it's generally working fine - finding a few devices that don't work brilliantly doesn't mean it's not working at all, or that the company is about to be ruined, or the apocalypse is coming, etc. etc.

  • Even though i'm not targeting mobile devices these kind of posts do make me a bit uncomfortable so i would ask for the OP or anyone else having trouble to please follow up Ashley's request of posting a sample project or mailing it in to them. If there really are some performance problems i think the whole community would benefit by it being investigated but i understand that without having a look at the .capx or .c3p file there's not much to be done... Also agree with the poster above me: a general mobile performance sticky post would be a good thing.

  • karan316 joelmayer

    Easy Fix, check the Tittle before you enter to the Threads and that will give you a hint of what you gonna spect inside and don't enter them if it brakes your vibe, that will avoid you many heart Attacks.

    Is not mandatory to enter into all threads

    I will give you a hint if you see any title that starts with (Mobile performance issues) (Mobile Problems) etc.... you know is not for you

    because if your life is going smooth and happy doesn't mean that is for everyone the same

    For more than two years or so I have been reading and seeing here battles about exporters on Pc, consoles, Performance issues etc...much much worse so why would it be any different now? because you two can handle it?

  • Don't know what you're even talking about so will you post a project file now showing the problem or not?

  • [quote:h967bzcv]If you think there are issues, make minimal test .capx projects and share them. That is how to understand, diagnose and fix any issues there may be. Anything other than that is not going to get anyone anywhere.

    can you be more specific what test do you need so you can take any actions? as far as I know, the forum is plagued with capx that has been reported with stutters and performance problems do I have to share mine swell, I shared for you already in the other thread, did you fix that already?

    Capx:

    Its done really quick and I didn't look to make it perfect, but it shows my Point very clear

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/nzgkezqa6oehywo/1-WebviewTest.capx?dl=0

    Videos: Test done in an Iphone 6

    This is a test Exported with Cocoon WebView (but exactly the same happens with PhoneGap)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ni44kmt4g4svr ... w.mp4?dl=0

    And This is a test Exported with Cocoon Canvas+

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/568asek26khbc ... B.mp4?dl=0

    Steps to Reproduce The more Yellow colour you see the worst (meaning code Delayed)

    Move around so the Enemies (Red Squares) can find a path to the Player, Every 1 second

    On the Trigger were they start looking for Path I set their frame to 1 which is = Yellow

    On Trigger Path Found I set the Frame Back to 0 which is = Red

    Observed Result

    WebView:

    it takes for Ever to find a Path, you will see that the frame stays Yellow for long periods of Time when it should only blink really quick, meaning that is that slow that sometimes they stack in the same position looking for Path.

    Maybe Here you will not appreciate much but when this happens on my Game where the enemies should continuously hunt the Player and they are about to catch the Player and suddenly they just stop taking a sun bath for long periods of time, doesn't look good at all you cant call it a Game.

    Canvas+:

    Is that Fast that you cant even see the blink from one frame to the other

    And again here you will not appreciate but in my Game, you can see how everything moves Fast, how quick they swap Directions, how quick they execute the Events and many more things, so yeah is a big Gap and you can easily compare them both and find out who is faster, I do.

    in an Iphone 7 exported with Cocoon WebView

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezute95v4o9rw64/Iphone7-WebView.mp4?dl=0

    Let's not forget that these tests have nothing just the pathfinder events, still, we didn't add the Game Logic, menus etc.... and look the Performance, can you see anyone doing a Mobile Game like that

    ===================================================================

    Also, every device I've tested in our office performs just fine. We have many people publishing mobile games which work just fine. As I've said before, we very often get people doing things like hitting GPU bandwidth limits and blaming us - no technology will save you there, it's a hardware limit.

    What type of Games performs well? that's why I asked in my previous post if you count for all types of Games, for what I have seen all the Games that I tried on construct are more like "Moving Object" type, example the last one "Bomber Man Type" is not like they moving 1000 Px per second and yet still they stutter when there is a minimum type of Logic for the Game, That's the problem.

    And for what we see recently most the type of Games that involves constant moving that has been reported are affected

    [quote:h967bzcv]On the whole I'm sure it's generally working fine - finding a few devices that don't work brilliantly doesn't mean it's not working at all, or that the company is about to be ruined, or the apocalypse is coming, etc. etc

    devices working well are you talking about iPhone 8 or X

    apocalypses? of course is not for Scirra, is all good for you guys that get paid for the full year in advance, we are the one that has to delay fix, wait, report, try, retry, upload test, fix upload test, cry, at the end no fix, of course is not the apocalypses are you serious

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  • Don't know what you're even talking about so will you post a project file now showing the problem or not?

    joelmayer you showed no interest in my problem before and its all cool you don't have to but please I'm trying to find a solution here to an "Important Problem" like you said you don't use Mobile export so you will not understand, if you really were interested and read the thread you would have found the Capx very easy by the way is not about one capx again, does anyone understand that this is not about one capx Fix?

    the capx is just to show a general problem that is all

  • tarek2 the pathfinding sounds like web workers not working in webview. what version of safari are you using?

    Use your phone safari and go to https://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_webworkers.asp to test if web workers are supported. If web workers are supported the pathfinding should be fast.

    The stutter is most likely garbage collection issues. I tried to find the reason in this thread, as i'm experiencing it across several devices and browsers.

    viewtopic.php?f=191&t=200520

  • karan316 joelmayer

    Easy Fix, check the Tittle before you enter to the Threads and that will give you a hint of what you gonna spect inside and don't enter them if it brakes your vibe, that will avoid you many heart Attacks.

    Is not mandatory to enter into all threads

    I will give you a hint if you see any title that starts with (Mobile performance issues) (Mobile Problems) etc.... you know is not for you

    because if your life is going smooth and happy doesn't mean that is for everyone the same

    For more than two years or so I have been reading and seeing here battles about exporters on Pc, consoles, Performance issues etc...much much worse so why would it be any different now? because you two can handle it?

    I have nothing against you, I just don't want the product to suffer coz of endless thread criticising the same issue. Before buying a license, people would check out the forums and see how much activity is there, seeing so many negative threads on a single issue gives a wrong message to the future consumers. I am a big supporter of the product and that's the reason I am recommending something. Maybe I'll stop now coz I have said about it 3-4 times already. I apologise if I sounded rude, but I care for the future of the game engine and am pretty passionate about it.

  • Well, the pathfinding .capx doesn't work for me at all on iOS after a Cordova export. It looks like there's some bug that is stopping the worker from starting up. I'll look in to why that's happening.

    Please just file bugs using the normal procedure for things like this. Writing epic forum threads questioning the future of the product is really unhelpful and makes it a great deal harder to help. Yeah, we get bugs. All software has bugs. We have well-established processes for dealing with them, and these processes are aimed at ensuring we can fix the problem quickly and effectively.

  • [quote:2amprn7j]"tunepunk"]@tarek2 the pathfinding sounds like web workers not working in webview. what version of safari are you using?

    Use your phone safari and go to https://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_webworkers.asp to test if web workers are supported. If web workers are supported the pathfinding should be fast.

    Hi tunepunk Thanks,

    I normally keep up to date all the devices but I checked again just to make sure they are all Up to date and all the devices are up to date running ios version 11.2.6 and Safari version 11 doesn't look is that causing the Problem

    =======================

    The stutter is most likely garbage collection issues. I tried to find the reason in this thread, as i'm experiencing it across several devices and browsers.

    viewtopic.php?f=191&t=200520

    I'm following that thread since started, but in my honest opinion I'm not really sure if anything you could do to stop the stutters, and here is why

    Have a look at this thread our colleague posted no while ago a capx for Dino autoRunner wich stutters like hell, I went even farther and I removed all the events and I left 3 events only and still stutters like hell. I don't think any capx we present as evidence can beat this one as is the record a "3 event capx "

    What can anyone optimize there? there is nothing to optimize 3 events only, there is no Pathfinder there is nothing lol is not clear evidence already that is nothing we can do on our side to resolve these things.

    I see you spending Time to study these things like me, to improve the Games but it looks like we are wasting our Time in cases like this, is in it

    Thread link:

    https://www.scirra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=146&t=193904&p=1160551#p1160551

    I run a test with the capx I posted there

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/14nxrodiir87k9q/AutoRunner%20Dino2.capx?dl=0

    Tests Exported with Cocoon Webview

    Iphone 6 Test

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/35k4dykvq2ma7ig/DinoIphone6.mp4?dl=0

    Iphone 7 Test

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3fxf7xzxanv2ofo/DinoIphone7.mp4?dl=0

    If that is not the apocalypse I don't know what else can it be, Stutters as Big jumps as if someone is dragging Back and forwards the object.

    3 events only, two objects on the screen one static and the other one moving, can anyone beat that!!

  • I've fixed the pathfinding .capx for the next release (for C2 and C3 - they were both affected). As far as I can tell, the Web Worker was entirely failing to start up due to the restrictions of WKWebView. Once it correctly starts up it works fine.

    This should have been a routine bug report. This approach of writing long forum posts and stoking concerns about mobile is needlessly toxic. We deal with bug reports like this all the time; please use the usual bug report methods to have them dealt with.

  • [quote:3w2b968t]I've fixed the pathfinding .capx for the next release (for C2 and C3 - they were both affected). As far as I can tell, the Web Worker was entirely failing to start up due to the restrictions of WKWebView. Once it correctly starts up it works fine.

    Thank you very much

    ===============================

    [quote:3w2b968t]This should have been a routine bug report. This approach of writing long forum posts and stoking concerns about mobile is needlessly toxic. We deal with bug reports like this all the time; please use the usual bug report methods to have them dealt with

    This is not a Routine Report please Stop changing the subject trying to make it look like there is no Problem here as I pointed in the Beginning of the thread I quote my self

    [quote:3w2b968t]

    What are the issues?

    -Stutters on exported Games made on c2/c3

    -Code Executing is much slower on Webview than Canvas+, as a result, making some Games unplayable

    -My main concern is Stutters on exported Games made on c2/c3

    So I used the Pathfinder problem as an example to show you that there are delays in Webview executing the Code, and maybe there was some kind of connection to why we experiencing Stutters in our Games but that it was just a theory for you to help you investigate.

    you said you fixed the Pathfinder which is Grate, and now I'm asking did you fix the Biggest and the Main Problem "Stutters" ?

    do all the users Experiencing Stutters has to Fill up a bug Report? because I saw many users Experiencing this not only me

    This is not a Topic to just open a simple bug Report as this Stutters problem has been for Years and hasn't been Fixed so it makes sense to debate it Publicly because it may you take it more seriously, and it may I don't know but it may make you stop of trying to use that psychology like (Apocalypsys, Epic, etc....) to try to demolish the credibility and the Purpose of this thread because is not working it just make you look like you had no intention or have not intention to fix the Problem >>>>>>>>>>"Stutters"

    Please stop playing with us I don't like to go around and around, I'm a direct person and I like they speak to me directly not avoiding the problem going around and around playing, I'm a paid customer and I have the Right to express my self and ask to be fixed something that is unjust for us to have.

    And if I said something that is not right against the company please quoted here for me and if I see that I own you and apologise I will not think twice to apologise and I give any explanation if is necessary

    I posted you another Capx with shutters, has no Pathfinder has nothing 3 events, and now I will ask you again, the fix you did to the Pathfinder is gonna help in any way to Stop the Stutters of the second capx That I posted?

    if the answer is not then this is not a Topic for a normal Bug report because as its effects all the users that Export to Mobiles

    And are all welcome to post their experiences here why it should be Hiding in some obscure corner? when is something that important

    By the way, I'm not the only one Reporting the "Stutters"

    as you can see here

    https://www.scirra.com/forum/framerate-stutter-achieve-smooth-fps_p1167337?#p1167337

  • This is not a Routine Report

    The pathfinding bug was a routine bug and could have been filed as such. You have been exploiting this to stoke concerns about mobile. You don't need to do that.

    If you can't concede this point I'm not willing to participate in this thread further.

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