Native Desktop Exporter for Construct 3

  • Ashley

    This is off completely off topic, but I'd probably get a response from you faster here.

    Is there any reason that the "Wait" and "Flash" actions would not work because of each other in an event?

    I made a post about it here.

    Back to topic,

    I heard someone that Construct 2 exports your events in Javascript when you export to HTML5. Is this true? If so, would it be possible to make an .exe exporter for the JavaScript?

  • JavaScript is a part of the HTML5 technologie, so internally C2 works with JavaScript. But it is not enough just to translate JavaScript to another language, like C++ or C#. You must bind in graphic, sound and other libraries too, for example DirectX or OpenGl. In the end you have a complete new Game Engine.

    What would be thinkable is make an Editor like C2 for Haxe and OpenFL, but also this Ashley had to code from the ground up new.

  • I heard someone that Construct 2 exports your events in Javascript when you export to HTML5

    As far as I know it does. A JavaScript code is viewable from the webpage source code, that's why C2 uses the "Minify script" option (if you check it). If I'm right, the code is in the c2runtime.js file.

  • Waiting for a bug fix is more sensible than starting a huge software engineering project to work around it. Google do respond to bugs - sometimes it takes a while - but they are far more communicative than driver vendors, and then even if they fix it, the update may only be distributed to a fraction users worldwide, due to their policy of dropping support for driver updates for old hardware after a few years.

    I do understand it is hard to hear as a customer, but waiting for improvements does work. Around 2011 when everyone was exasperatedly telling us what were we thinking, we should make a Flash exporter, and I still argued then that the direction things are going in is more important than the specifics of the situation right now. Where are those "you must make a Flash exporter" people now?

    I guess if you absolutely insist on the necessity of a native exporter, then maybe there are other tools out there which can provide that for you. But I do think that would be somewhat premature at this stage if your main concern is the status of v-sync quality in Chrome - it's probably not going to stay the same forever.

    I mean, for me, and I would imagine others, the dependence on dev teams that have C2 as an afterthought has failed. Of course the same arguments always come up, "What about driver bugs?", "This is only one bug!", etc etc. These are all academic, in reality, when you design a game with features listed in C2 that then don't actually work, and stay that way for literally years, that leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Especially so when when gaming related issues are often put behind stuff like browser security or whatever is of most importance in browser vendors. Just as an example, Number of times I've had to wait for over a year for some bug affecting my unity projects to be addressed = 0. Number of times in C2 is like 5 (though, yay, I think I'm on the last one now!). And the complexity of the unity projects is vastly greater than my C2 projects. Maybe driver vendors are unresponsive, but their code appears to be far more mature than chrome's implementation of HTML5 and their priorities are more aligned with game devs. Also typically driver bugs don't affect your entire customer base, etc etc. I'm just speculating here, I don't actually know why, but of many, many tools I've used, C2 is the only one where I can't actually publish my projects years after they've been completed, and the ONLY product where devs outright just point you to Google or some third party (in other products usually they may implement some work-around for some bug out of their control, etc). I'll leave it to you to figure out why C2 has that problem rather than debate with you with academic arguments.

    I'm not saying that a native exporter is what you need, but your product needs to depend on technologies that are more mature, that you have more control over, and whose development teams closely share priorities with you. None of these things were the case for C2. Because of the technologies C2 depended on it was essentially an Alpha or Beta stage product throughout its entire lifetime, with Scirra being essentially helpless in pushing it out of Beta until chrome devs or Intel, or whoever got around to it. This just makes it impossible to plan stuff. YOu never know if a bug will be fixed or with what timeline (whereas with all other tools I've used, you do), so should you re-design your game? Wait until the bug is fixed? Who knows? Certainly not Scirra. You can't plan anything.

    Anyway the bottom line is, customers shouldn't really prescribe the specific solution. At the same time you should appreciate that they are unhappy and that unhappiness is for a reason. So as a professional company, maybe you should figure out the solution as to how to put yourselves in a position where you can address bugs with something more meaningful than "oh.. but... GOOGLE!", whether that's with a native exporter, Scirra's own wrapper, or whatever. Just know that right now you are not succeeding on being able to provide support for your product, and no professional in their right mind would depend on such a product.

  • What you don't understand is, that this are issues of html5 and not C2. If you want make a game like the new Diablo (example) and publish on steam, C2 is probably not the right tool for you. But anyway, there are thousands of active html5 developers who publish succesfull there games and projects. I also use C2 for my client work and always everything worked out fine. C2 has it's market and it's very good on this. So stop whining and chose the correct tools for your projects.

    There is never a all-in-one solution. C2 is mainly for small to medium web-/mobile games or interactive advertisment on the web.

  • Games It's great that you can make mobile and web games, but C2 from the beginning was expected to be exactly what they sell it as, a powerful and professional game development tool with desktop deployment. If C2 is only exporting to HTML5, and if the issues are in HTML5, then it's safe to say that C2 is also an issue. You can't build a structure using quicksand as the foundation and say "Well the house is perfect, the problem is just the foundation".

    This isn't whining from people wanting more than they were promised, and don't try to separate yourself from the "other" developers who are making larger projects than you (because two of them are still the posterboy's of Construct 2's capabilities). We all lose out if we pretend that Construct 2's editor itself is the ultimate goal rather than the runtime/games we make and sell with it.

  • What you don't understand is, that this are issues of html5 and not C2. If you want make a game like the new Diablo (example) and publish on steam, C2 is probably not the right tool for you. But anyway, there are thousands of active html5 developers who publish succesfull there games and projects. I also use C2 for my client work and always everything worked out fine. C2 has it's market and it's very good on this. So stop whining and chose the correct tools for your projects.

    There is never a all-in-one solution. C2 is mainly for small to medium web-/mobile games or interactive advertisment on the web.

    There is no reason for you to continuously invent arguments to defend Scirra. I am neither addressing you, nor am I interested in whether or not you personally think I should have 'known better' about the state of HTML5 and various support of platforms prior to buying it. I am also not personally attacking Scirra, as you seem to take posts of criticism personally. Scirra is a company that needs to know what issues customers are having with their products so they can make decisions about how they want to proceed in the future. Sounds like C2 is meeting your expectations. Also sounds like C2 is not meeting the expectations of many other customers. It's good for Scirra to know this and try to identify why that might be the case and whether and how they want to address it, if they want to continue to be a successful company. I know it's common around here to want to place some sort of 'blame' on the customers having issues, but to me that thought process is essentially meaningless. What matters is, "Is a large number of your user base unhappy with your product?" The answer seems to be yes, and seems to have been yes for years. There isn't a time when I visit this board that this very topic isn't being discussed in one form or another. Given that, it is clear that Scirra is doing something wrong, either in how they represent their product, how much control they have over it, or whatever. It's up to them to figure out what that is and how to deal with it. So far it doesn't seem like they've succeeded.

    I do understand whose issues they are also, it's not HTML5's issue, google didn't sell me C2 and tell me that I can use it to make games on Android and Desktop. Scirra did that, so the issues are Scirra's. If they chose to use a faulty technology that was not ready to fulfill their claim of supporting Desktop, Android, etc, that's on them. They actively oversold HTML5 capabilities to convince people that it was in a ready enough state to base their product on. People found out that in many cases it was not.

  • It's a shame that the Scirra landing page is what it currently is, instead of the actual C2 landing page here: https://www.scirra.com/construct2.

    It specifically states clearly what C2 is, and not what many are stating what they think it is.

    This thread seems to be getting a little personal on occasion.

    #shakesheadandwalksaway

  • zenox98 agreed, that would be a better landing page, as it doesn't oversell C2 at all to me.

    I think there is a little bitterness, but this is normal whenever a product is being replaced or retired by something different. Even a few months ago people were still commenting that they dislike the retirement of CC, so it's probably more productive to just try and make sure C3 meets the needs of the community or sets an image of exactly what it will (and won't) do before people start buying it.

  • Juryiel: There is no reason for you to invent arguments against C2, that are just not true. You can publish to desktop & also to Android. I don't see a problem here. Can be that have some projects that work not as good, but this is not a general prove to say all the export options they promise us just don't exist. Because they are here for us to use and get updated constantly. If you buy one car of Ford and it isn't fast enough for you, you go to Ford and say: "You lied, this car doesn't drive at all! Make me a Ferrari!"

    But this is the problem with todays generation, that want to have everything with one click and is not willing to read a manual anymore...

    Anyway, i am out of this discussion, because you just don't want to understand. Really, people that are for years!!! (like you say) unhappy with this product, what they are still doing here? Is C2 the only gamemaker out there? If i don't like a thing i don't wait years, i change for another solution right now. And C2 is really not a so big investment, that you can not afford another software for years.

    So, special for you: i don't defend Scirra because i feel personal connected to them, i just don't like untrue speakings,

    look the link Zenox give above. I don't find something untrue there, what they say.

    Over and out.

  • Juryiel: There is no reason for you to invent arguments against C2, that are just not true. You can publish to desktop & also to Android. I don't see a problem here. Can be that have some projects that work not as good, but this is not a general prove to say all the export options they promise us just don't exist. Because they are here for us to use and get updated constantly. If you buy one car of Ford and it isn't fast enough for you, you go to Ford and say: "You lied, this car doesn't drive at all! Make me a Ferrari!"

    But this is the problem with todays generation, that want to have everything with one click and is not willing to read a manual anymore...

    Anyway, i am out of this discussion, because you just don't want to understand. Really, people that are for years!!! (like you say) unhappy with this product, what they are still doing here? Is C2 the only gamemaker out there? If i don't like a thing i don't wait years, i change for another solution right now. And C2 is really not a so big investment, that you can not afford another software for years.

    So, special for you: i don't defend Scirra because i feel personal connected to them, i just don't like untrue speakings,

    look the link Zenox give above. I don't find something untrue there, what they say.

    Over and out.

    As I said, still here because I have already completed products that cannot be published due to issues on 3rd party tech that have yet to be resolved. I check every so and again to see if they've been resolved, but I have indeed moved my current projects to new engines, as you suggest. For whatever reason you seem to be of the mindset that not providing criticism and feedback and instead leaving C2 development is what Scirra wants when people are unhappy. On the other hand, my guess is that they want to retain customers or at the very least to know why customers left.

    I don't think the rest of your post is worth addressing so I'll leave it at that.

  • Juryiel: There is no reason for you to invent arguments against C2, that are just not true. You can publish to desktop & also to Android. I don't see a problem here. Can be that have some projects that work not as good, but this is not a general prove to say all the export options they promise us just don't exist. Because they are here for us to use and get updated constantly. If you buy one car of Ford and it isn't fast enough for you, you go to Ford and say: "You lied, this car doesn't drive at all! Make me a Ferrari!"

    But this is the problem with todays generation, that want to have everything with one click and is not willing to read a manual anymore...

    Anyway, i am out of this discussion, because you just don't want to understand. Really, people that are for years!!! (like you say) unhappy with this product, what they are still doing here? Is C2 the only gamemaker out there? If i don't like a thing i don't wait years, i change for another solution right now. And C2 is really not a so big investment, that you can not afford another software for years.

    So, special for you: i don't defend Scirra because i feel personal connected to them, i just don't like untrue speakings,

    look the link Zenox give above. I don't find something untrue there, what they say.

    Over and out.

    That is the problem with this generation? That comment and your aggressive attitude on the forums makes you sound like an angry old man.

    And your analogy is awful. If I buy a car from ford when ford promises that it will drive as fast as a ferrari, I expect it too.

    Responding to the rest of your post is too time consuming and pointless. People have a right to whine all they like on the forums. They are paying customers that are expressing their opinions. If they want to get on and whine everyday about issues that are important to them they can. Who are you to tell them to stop?

    Many of us are passionate about C2 because everything from the initial installation > project creation > and the finishing of the project are all fantastic. The editor does almost everything it promises -- and provides an amazingly fast result... until exporting. Exporting issues with HTML5/Javascript is not a C2 fault -- a ton of standalone desktop applications and games for instance rely on node-webkit. The problem from my standpoint is that we have an amazing editor with no finisher. Gamemaker (again my opinion) is dog crap, but the export options work.

    Yes many of us have other options. I have been working with libgdx a ton -- and while it is amazing, and results in mind bending performance, it is still based on java. Some do not like having to require that java is installed on machines for their users to install and play their game. I have also been putting time in with SFML and have been slowly working with C++. I do not like C++ but it is nice to explore options. Love2D is another great framework for 2d gaming -- and with the luaJIT compiler it has some impressive performance as well. But do I like having to code my games? (well yeah actually I kind of do). What I love about C2 is having everything built in to one nice little package. I can create my sprites.. work with the event system (wish is was code), and have access to everything without having a need for external programs. I even have high hopes for other projects like GODOT/Enigma/and even GDevelop.

    Why do I keep coming back here after these years? Because I genuinely like Scirra and Ashley. I think he is a tremendous developer with a bright future, is extremely knowledgeable, and has invested unhealthy amounts of his time to help others. I also have a place in town that charges me almost double for my oil changes... When someone treats you right and provides quality work, you reward them.

    I hope you do stay out of the rest of this conversation as you said you are.. but if you do not -- unlike you, I respect that others have opinions that I do not agree with and am glad that we have a platform to express ourselves.

  • If Scirra get back to the roots and advertise C2 as an html5 engine for making web games, no one can "complain anymore"

    i originally bought C2 to make simple web games, and it's great at that.

    beyond that it would depend on what features your game uses....

  • As someone who has made a tool for converting C2 Projects to native, i can tell you native is not all cakes and marshmallows. You are going to find it hard to find a similar program that offers features like multiplayer, pathfinding, and shaders as easy as Construct 2 delivers them.

    Am i annoyed about the jank issues? Sure, but native likes to hop around like a bunny without you programming a few tricks in. Want to sync your game in windowed mode to the refresh rate? .. Nope, not without uncapping the frame rate and watch your animations go out the window.

    Unity or other programs may be superior tools.

    But in terms of ease-of-use, Construct 2 is my Favourite.

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  • My latest game could earn up to 450$ in last month (comparing to Java apps with native AdMob), however it earned pennies, because I'm using CocoonJS with MoPub. And it means very low fillrate (for interstitials) and low eCPM. Of course I could use native AdMob ads with Crosswalk, but guess what... it's jittering So I preffered to release smooth game with CocoonJS than jittering with Crosswalk. Of course Ludei is working on native AdMob ads, and of course Crosswalk someday will be fixed - but it means weeks/months of waiting (in both cases). So that's real life. And that's why professionals avoid Construct 2. And "True multiplatform support" slogan is just not true.

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