As for the engine we currently have that is "very powerful, what we need is a new editor" I dare you to say that to the devs of Airscape and The Next Penelope, who managed to do what very little Indie developers do a make a game that companies want on their company and are fully ready to pay yet are handicapped by Construct 2 not having the exporters. MMF might be a UI nightmare, but to be fair it is more powerful than Construct 2 and has all the exporters anybody should ever need. And using MMF is still easier than writing real code.
And why, pray tell, didn't they use MMF to make their games then? Surely MMF has all the exporters one could possibly need, yes?
I'll tell you why. It's because MMF is nowhere near as fully featured as C2, and that's what developers are looking for in an engine.
Nowhere in scirra.com does it say C2 is able to export to XBONE or PS3. Flash doesn't export to barely anything, and yet there are many great developers who managed to profit off it. In fact, what keeps killing flash is that projects become spaghetti very fast, which is the same problem we have with construct. Look at The Binding of Isaac [mirror] (Who knows how the editor or runtime will behave once we start getting into the 500Mb range for projects!?).
Like TiAm said, "sometimes the cutting edge makes you bleed". They bet that consoles would have support for HTML5 by the time they were done. They were wrong. But they wouldn't have chosen C2 if we had console exporters, because then we wouldn't have effects, the debugger, or many of the useful features that make C2 stand out.
Release with the native exporters first and then work on the better editor
But I don't want that. I don't want the native exporters at all. Even if scirra were to hire someone to work on them, because I'd rather have them hire QuaziGNRLnose, rexrainbow, R0J0hound, Pode or any of the other plugin developers (sorry if I forgot you!), or even Somebody to work on the interface (cool mockup btw).
Don't just focus on Desktop users, you have no greats mobile games to show in the Home Page, Coz you have to give them an option.
You're telling scirra to not focus on people like me. Why do people insist on mobiles and consoles? It's a shit market to work with! You complain ceaselessly about the "third parties", is there a worse third party than Nintendo, who makes you sign an NDA and prevents you from sharing knowledge? Or Apple, who pulls games out of the app store without explanation, and whose approval proccess is so black-boxed you never get to know the reason your game was denied? The list goes on, with Ouya, Android, XBone, flash, java, etc...
But you got to understand C2 have two users, Mobile dev and desktop dev. You have to feed both of them.
No. When C2 started, we didn't have mobile at all, and it was by standing firm and sticking to HTML5 that we eventually got into mobile anyway. If we ignore the people screaming for native, the same will happen, and eventually we'll be able to run C2 games on toasters, because HTML5 is moving far faster than any single company could ever hoper for with their "native" tech. If we do nothing at all, the problem will go away, and even the native people will eventually be happy.
My only complaint. Is that Since Ashley doesn't make games, I'm not sure his value of what game developers want or need should the final decision
I'm not sure about Tom, but Ashley used to be Tigerworks in the past. They made games, and pretty complex ones at that. I'm sure he knows what developers need, because (I'm assuming) he's partially creating C2 for his younger self.
right now both sides equally feel like they're not getting what they wanted and thought they would when they read the adverts.
Not really, I'm completely satisfied with the direction c2 is going. Heck, they keep surpassing my expectations every few months - I never dreamed I'd even be able to reach mobiles when I bought C2. If they stick to their plan, I'll keep being happy. I'm here to voice my dissent, because otherwise Scirra might feel pressured to make those blasted native exporters.
A happy compromise I'd be willing to accept is an exporter SDK, for people who are willing to make one.
Refeuh is exactly right. If you want to squeeze more performance out of your game, a native engine will help very little if there are still low-hanging fruits for you to exploit, and as Ashley said, most of the cases the games that run poorly are just badly coded.
Besides it seems odd that on the one hand some people complain that we depend on third parties for browser technology, and then others suggest solutions that again involve depend on third parties (be it HAXE, Unity or some other intermediary technology). No technology is perfect, and we could be equally hosed by shortcomings in those.
Cue complaints in the future about how we should ditch Unity/HAXE and just develop native exporters already. It's still bonkers, but at least haxe is open source.